Brexit thread - what happens next

[datalol-jack]

Well Leadsom has both ex pats living abroad and all the EU already here are not a given and will be part of the negotiations.

That doesnt sound good. Will people be happy if all EU citizens living here have to leave post Brexit and we get all the criminals back from Spain?

The tit-for-tat on that point won't be pleasant under her as PM, but in simple economic terms -- people take their money and demand with them, and most likely jobs and capital too. I'm not sure how many pensioners in Spain would be thankful for a higher cost of living to lesser pensions deal either.

 

[itchy]

The leave campaign was largely fought and won on the following points being true post brexit.

- We can control immigration
- We can have access to the single market.
- We will save a significant amount of money.
- We will be free from from red tape
- We will be able to negotiate trade deals quicker than the EU.
- UK citizens could still freely travel and work in the EU.

It was also fought and won on the following points being "scaremongering".

- Companies will not leave the UK
- There will not be a rescission
- Interest rate will not go up
- House prices will not go down
- There will not be an increase in taxes
- There will not be cuts to public services

The remain vote is solid. They know what "deal" they have today, and they seem happy enough to continue with that deal.

The winning margin for Leave was very narrow. If any one or more of these points prove to be false, all bets are off. The country will have changed its mind, and overturning the result will not be "undemocratic". The "will of the people" is not immutable, and it's not something that only happens on the 23rd of June 2016.

The only reason Leave supporters are against any more debate on this issue is because the situation is now more real, they can't flippantly disregards critical policy issues, and they'll lose the argument.

They are also clambering for anyone suicidal enough to "get on with it" and press the article 50 button as quickly as possible is because they know the longer they leave it, the more apparent it will be that half the country has been duped.

To be perfectly honest, if the leave side could plausible convince me that all the above were true I'd happily respect the result. But there is absolutely zero chance of it ever happening. It's 100%, pure unadulterated BS.

Keep going son as it will achieve? 0!

 

[n111ck]

Hahahahahaha

 

[estebanrey]

The leave campaign was largely fought and won on the following points being true post brexit.

- We can control immigration
- We can have access to the single market.
- We will save a significant amount of money.
- We will be free from from red tape
- We will be able to negotiate trade deals quicker than the EU.
- UK citizens could still freely travel and work in the EU.

And none of those things have been proven to be untrue as of yet.

Besides Remain was based on the following be true

- David Cameron would invoke Article 50 immediately following a Leave vote
- George Osborne would introduce an emergency budget '' ''.
- There would be tax increases and more cuts (Osborne has since said he will do the opposite on both counts...i.e reducing Corporation Tax and scrapping budget surplus target).

The idea that Remain didn't lie or exaggerate and only Leave did is bunkem.
-

 

[Stretch]

Keep going son as it will achieve? 0!

The only reason Leave supporters are against any more debate on this issue is because the situation is now more real, they can't flippantly disregards critical policy issues, and they'll lose the argument.

 

[Locky]

Does anyone here think article 50 is never going to be implemented?

 

[Deadly Ferret]

Are you lot still banging on about this?! It's been ten days lads. The world has moved on, and more importantly my shares have fully recovered.

Won't you ever learn that you are part of the sweaty masses? Doesn't matter how passionate - or intelligent - you are. You're part of a hive mind suffering from split personalities, and you're only worker class. (Don't any gimboids mistake that for 'working class' and go off on one!)

Might as well stick your shovel in to the Sahara than debate this debacle.

 

[FoxEye]

Does anyone here think article 50 is never going to be implemented?

Apart from Farage, who honestly wants to be the one who pushes it? I think everyone is looking for a get-out clause atm. Seems like only the other EU members want us to trigger it... nobody in the UK wants to do it now.

 

[itchy]

I am not against more debate, I am against the antagonistic approach
the remain side have taken.

Its like everyone has become a pain in the backside Sunday driver.

Dig, poke, no this is not right, I want my free roaming, I want to work in the EU..... Blah blah.

Grow up or put up period.

The maybe many facets to ones thoughts and beliefs of the EU.

But democratically we out, so move along nothing to see here.

 

[spoffle]

I am not against more debate, I am against the antagonistic approach
the remain side have taken.

Its like everyone has become a pain in the backside Sunday driver.

Dig, poke, no this is not right, I want my free roaming, I want to work in the EU..... Blah blah.

Grow up or put up period.

The maybe many facets to ones thoughts and beliefs of the EU.

But democratically we out, so move along nothing to see here.

You're absolutely terrible at holding a debate. Your idea of it is to go on about democratic votes not understanding that the actual outcome isn't actually democratic in the slightest.

Had the result been leave with the same figures you would be foaming at the mouth demanding something be done, just like ol' Nige was when he thought people were doing to vote to remain.

 

[Stretch]

And none of those things have been proven to be untrue as of yet.

It's clear that it's not possible to deliver on all those promises. They are mutually exclusive. It's also clear that any potential gain (which are currently so vague as to be meaningless) will be preceded by some pretty serious pain.

Who's paying for it?

How long do we have to wait in our new found world of make believe before we see some benefit?

What do we do if the benefits never materialise, and actually the legacy of Brexit is long term stagnation, lower growth, more debt and higher taxes?

Growth isn't just a meaningless abstract number. It pays for our welfare system, gives people a pay rises, keeps people in employment, pays for our children to be educated and our NHS. It attracts investment, fiances our national debt and pays for our armed forces.

People will suffer in a whole host of ways, and not just superficially. It's especially bad now because there is very little meat on the nations finances, even a mild shock is going to bite hard.

Besides Remain was based on the following be true

- David Cameron would invoke Article 50 immediately following a Leave vote
- George Osborne would introduce an emergency budget '' ''.
- There would be tax increases and more cuts (Osborne has since said he will do the opposite on both counts...i.e reducing Corporation Tax and scrapping budget surplus target).

The idea that Remain didn't lie or exaggerate and only Leave did is bunkem.
-

So Dave won't resign himself to caring out the worst decision of any politician in modern history. Sounds like one of the few wise decisions he's made recently. Threatening to carry out brexit was hardly vote winner either way.

As for the second two points. Scrapping the budget surplus is effectively a deferred tax rise. The cut in corporation tax was decided long before the referendum. The tax rises with be piled upon PAYE and VAT to start with, then who knows where after.

 

[koolpc]

People want a 2nd vote. Mad really as would they allow a 2nd vote if people were not happy that Labour got back in or Libs got in etc in a General election? No! One would have to accept the result and get on with it!

 

[Darg]

People want a 2nd vote. Mad really as would they allow a 2nd vote if Labour got back in or Libs got in etc in a General election? No! One would have to accept the result and get on with it!

You don't think that people might change their minds before it's too late to reverse our decision? Give it 3 months to settle down and double check to make sure that a majority of the people still want to go through with it. That sounds the most democratic to me.

What are you afraid of? That the majority of people in 3 months won't want to leave the EU anymore? Are you afraid of democracy if it doesn't end in the result you want?

 

[itchy]

You're absolutely terrible at holding a debate. Your idea of it is to go on about democratic votes not understanding that the actual outcome isn't actually democratic in the slightest.

Had the result been leave with the same figures you would be foaming at the mouth demanding something be done, just like ol' Nige was when he thought people were doing to vote to remain.

I am not debating and your sig name holds up to your spoffle you spout.

I said before if we voted in so be it, that is life you win some you lose some.

I left anger at the door step years ago as I knew it would kill me.

We voted out by a majority of over 1,000,000.

I know its a big number and you used to small 2+2 figures but tuff we voted out.

Now how on earth are YOU personally going to change that, or anyone else?

Just askin .......

 

[Stretch]

People want a 2nd vote. Mad really as would they allow a 2nd vote if people were not happy that Labour got back in or Libs got in etc in a General election? No! One would have to accept the result and get on with it!

No, because a new government is something you can reverse in 5 years time, if you wish. Leaving the EU, on terms yet to be agreed isn't.

 

[koolpc]

You don't think that people might change their minds before it's too late to reverse our decision? Give it 3 months to settle down and double check to make sure that a majority of the people still want to go through with it. That sounds the most democratic to me.

What are you afraid of? That the majority of people in 3 months won't want to leave the EU anymore? Are you afraid of democracy if it doesn't end in the result you want?

It was democratic having the vote. Of which has been counted!

 

[spoffle]

I am not debating and your sig name holds up to your spoffle you spout.

I said before if we voted in so be it, that is life you win some you lose some.

I left anger at the door step years ago as I knew it would kill me.

We voted out by a majority of over 1,000,000.

I know its a big number and you used to small 2+2 figures but tuff we voted out.

Now how on earth are YOU personally going to change that, or anyone else?

Just askin .......

I know that you're not debating, because as I said you can't hold one.

You keep saying "we" and talking about democracy. If enough people make enough of a fuss about a leave vote in an attempt to overturn it then the democratic thing to do is to listen to "the people".

You aren't interested in democratic process, you just want your own way otherwise you wouldn't be condemning people's public response to the situation. You would want to know what everyone wants given the information that has come out since the vote was taken that changes the situation.

 

[n111ck]

8355 posts and nothing's changed lol

 

[itchy]

I know that you're not debating, because as I said you can't hold one.

You keep saying "we" and talking about democracy. If enough people make enough of a fuss about a leave vote in an attempt to overturn it then the democratic thing to do is to listen to "the people".

You aren't interested in democratic process, you just want your own way otherwise you wouldn't be condemning people's public response to the situation. You would want to know what everyone wants given the information that has come out since the vote was taken that changes the situation.

The democratic process has already taken place, your point is?

Please do enlighten me as am intrigued.

 

[Mynight]

8355 posts and nothing's changed lol

Indeed .

The democratic process has already taken place, your point is?

Please do enlighten me as am intrigued.

Are you just trying to wind people up or is it a natural ability?