Twitter: Being black and fat trumps being gay and white

[Avenged7Fold]

To avnge

What about it?

I didnt comment on the content of your point in the debate, just the manner in which you deliver your point at times. Just saying there is no need to wind people up over a OCuk GD debate.

It's funny how working class white males are factually one of the most disadvantaged groups in society

Are you a working class white male?

You can hardly make a statement like that without really experiencing the other side of things.

 

[cheesyboy]

It's funny how working class white males are factually one of the most disadvantaged groups in society yet aren't offered any protection at all, and are infact deemed by the left as priveledged simply for being white. Hilarious.

Quite the opposite.

It's the right wing rags who **** on the poor white classes. Benefit-shaming etc. It's the Guardian, not the Telegraph or DM, who voice their discomfort at the portrayal of 'the ****less [rhymes with 'reckless'] poor' in the general media.

The Left recognises the lack of opportunity and hopelessness for those at the bottom.

 

[estebanrey]

He is saying to put it simply you can only be racially abused if you have been historically or socially been disadvantaged and because whites have not we do not qualify or quantify for that.

He is saying if whites were historically enslaved (true) and using his narrative of poor/poverty (also true just look at Victorian Britain) thenwe could say we can cry racism.

Which is a utterly ridiculous line of reasoning.

 

[RaohNS]

.

RaohNS is coming out with racist claptrap that people are calling him on it and which RaohNS probably knows is racist. Cheesyboy is coming out with provably racist positions (obvious with just elementary analysis) that he probably thinks is not only not racist, but somehow doing some good against bigotry. All his argument does, is enshrine race as being some allegiance or faction that individuals should be treated as and which affects whether or not they're allowed to be hurt or offended by other people's prejudices towards them.

What have I said that is demonstrably racist though?

 

[cheesyboy]

Which is a utterly ridiculous line of reasoning.

It is. It's also not what was said.

 

[Roar87]

Are you a working class white male?

You can hardly make a statement like that without really experiencing the other side of things.

I don't really know what socio-economic class I'm in. I come from that background, I don't have a degree but I don't do a job that would probably be considered working class.

It's not really about my personal experiences though, it's about how many white working class males are going to University and how they're performing in exam results, etc, compared to other groups.

 

[Raumarik]

He is saying if whites were historically enslaved (true) and using his narrative of poor/poverty (also true just look at Victorian Britain) thenwe could say we can cry racism.

Whites have been, does nobody understand what the Vikings were doing in the UK 900-1100 AD?

 

[estebanrey]

It is. It's also not what was said.

It's not as simple as that - you can't 'role reversal' the tweets, because being white is not historically, and presently, persecuted or otherwise disadvantaged. Like it or not, white people, as a whole, are in a position of privilege. So when a black comic makes fun of white people, it's coming from a different position to a white comedian doing the same about black people.

You did claim that whether something is racist or not/less so, is based on the history of the culture/race someone was born into.

I know the point you're making, it's the Stewart Lee "chinny" argument being made here...

..and whilst I like Mr Lee I still think it's a poor line of reasoning because it is essentially a form of special pleading.

 

[Xordium]

since there is no background of persecution.

Maybe not for populations but that may not be the case of individuals in that population. Surely, extrapolating traits and expectations from a population onto an individual from that population is the very essence of prejudice and therefore in this case becomes racist in itself.

The irony couldn't be stronger.

 

[RaohNS]

You did claim that whether something is racist or not/less so, is based on the history of the culture/race someone was born into.

I know the point you're making, it's the Stewart Lee "chinny" argument being made here...

..and whilst I like Mr Lee I still think it's a poor line of reasoning because it is essentially a form of special pleading.

At least Im not the only one who is able to comprehend what he said.

 

[dowie]

You can hardly make a statement like that without really experiencing the other side of things.

I'm not sure (potentially rather subjective) experience is too important compared with say objective data. One of the biggest sources of 'privilege' in this country is simply the post code you grew up in, not your gender, ethnic group, 'race' etc.. Wealth is also a major source of privilege (though perhaps rather obvious).

 

[cheesyboy]

You did claim that whether something is racist or not/less so, is based on the history of the culture/race someone was born into.

I know the point you're making, it's the Stewart Lee "chinny" argument being made here...

 

[Avenged7Fold]

It's not really about my personal experiences though, it's about how many white working class males are going to University and how they're performing in exam results, etc, compared to other groups.

Oppertunities are out there for everyone. Everyone can go to university. I, my brother and sister went at the same year and my parents certainly could not afford to fund three physics masters courses at the time.

As to exam performance, that is the fault of the examinee if they perform badly. You dont get a pass or extra points for being brown or for being a woman or rich. Loans are available for the vast majority, with their social background not taking into account for the eligibility of the loan.

What way specifically do you think they are at a disadvantage when it comes to exams or university?

If you believe that the exam results show a skew to foreigners, it is generally because the cream of the crop are the ones that normally come here to study and eastern school systems favour developing understanding for a subject rather than covering a syllabus, which works out better at a later level where understanding trumps memorising.

 

[RaohNS]

Whites have been, does nobody understand what the Vikings were doing in the UK 900-1100 AD?

And even in the time of Cromwell the Barbary years

 

[estebanrey]

Maybe not for populations but that may not be the case of individuals in that population. Surely, extrapolating traits and expectations from a population onto an individual from that population is the very essence of prejudice and therefore in this case becomes racist in itself.

The irony couldn't be stronger.

This is a great point actually. Let's say Jaden Smith decided to become a stand-up comic and he did a gig a white trailer park.....would he still have more licence to mock the racial traits of white people despite never knowing what's like to not be a millionaire...just because his great, great, great, great, great, great granddad was a slave and white audience member's wasn't?

 

[cheesyboy]

Maybe not for populations but that may not be the case of individuals in that population. Surely, extrapolating traits and expectations from a population onto an individual from that population is the very essence of prejudice and therefore in this case becomes racist in itself.

The irony couldn't be stronger.

If you're joking about 'Whites' then there is no history of persecution, at least none which carries a legacy to the modern day.

If you're joking about about 'poor-workingclass-whites', or some other similarly maligned group, then there is.

There is 'racism' in any statement or joke that groups a whole race under one characteristic. But there isn't necessarily 'offence'.

 

[RaohNS]

It's not a "special pleading" because I've explained the roots and causes of why there's a difference in generating offence.

Best not to use fancy terms you don't understand.

But one of my ancestors was a slave. A prisoner and a refugee. So I qualify for having a social construct of racism now don't I?

 

[cheesyboy]

But one of my ancestors was a slave. A prisoner and a refugee. So I qualify for having a social construct of racism now don't I?

Oh. How droll.

 

[RaohNS]

Oh. How droll.

Just highlighting the absurdity of what you demarcate is needed for racism to be classed as such. Double standards.

 

[phil675]

If you're joking about 'Whites' then there is no history of persecution, at least none which carries a legacy to the modern day.

If you're joking about about 'poor-workingclass-whites', or some other similarly maligned group, then there is.

There is 'racism' in any statement or joke that groups a whole race under one characteristic. But there isn't necessarily 'offence'.

It's funny how I went through school having it hammered into me that everyone is equal and should be treated the same, but now I see the narrative being pushed of groups who in the past were discriminated against are not content with equal status, people are always looking for a special card they can play.