Another Germany Attack

[Tefal]

Hundreds of thousands of each did yes. Alongside the millions that have left Syria, with their wives and families.

Why didn't the German Jews stay in Germany and fight the rise of Hitler and the subsequent internment of them in concentration camps. There were plenty of them... Obviously that notion should be scorned, yet that's essentially the argument you just put across for Male Syrian refugees.

As I said in a previous thread after linking to an article pointing out the six richest countries are way behind in the helping of refugees that a significant number of poorer countries - perhaps we should be helping the refugees at the source (refugee camps) more, and then not only the fittest (who can travel a few thousand miles, much of it on foot) will get the help from us. Perhaps it would help stem the tide if families weren't so desperate for money to feed and cloth themselves that people had to travel in the first place.

The default premise seems to be so many people coming here are economic migrants. Is there any actual evidence of that? If so is there evidence that these so called economic migrants are just spending their money frivolously or are they actually sending money back to their families in refugee camps in turkey, Jordan and the myriad of other countries hosting more refugees than us.

The next question is why are we still arguing about helping refugees when the vast, vast majority of them are just trying to survive.

If they're so desperate they can't feedband xlothe themselves how are they affording rhe thousand and thousand sof pounds for smugglers?

 

[Xordium]

Because it isn't a simple yes/no question. The reply written was in response to that fact.

But I assume what you want me to say/think is that because he was Muslim at one point the fact he was violent was because he grew up with Islam, and as such the violence should still be attributed to Islam?

Rather than the possibility that he grew up violent/nasty for no reason related to Islam. His violence and extreme views made him gravitate towards an extreme teaching of Islam, which he then denounced but continued on the same violent streak he had since childhood.

Now for this fictitious man, can you provide evidence one is wrong and one is right? Or is the observers preconceived notion clouding their judgement?

Err, no it was a simple question to see how you would describe him. The reason for that should be blatantly obvious you determined in the post I was replying to that the chap the other day was German whilst ignoring the large part of his life.

I think to say that chap was equivalent to an indigenous German was wrong.

 

[Tefal]

How do you build a future for yourself and for your family.
.

Given the vast majority are single males i dont think that's a concern

 

[Tefal]

That is rather odd. If he fails the asylum case then why not deport him, rather than let him stay? There seems to be a major crack in Germany's asylum policy.

Cause you can't deport someone to an active war zone i imagine.

For one who would sign the paperwork without the herman government having to openly agree assad and his government are the rightful rulers of the xountry

 

[Xordium]

The next question is why are we still arguing about helping refugees when the vast, vast majority of them are just trying to survive.

Fine, you differ very differently from what I believe. That's understandable we have different beliefs and experiences. The positive thing is neither of us will then actively pursue action on that. And that for me is the fundamental difference. You and I have been taught to resolve conflict where possible in a humane fashion, that is how we have been raised, and if not to accept difference. Unfortunately, not everyone is taught such things in this world.

Yes, the vast majority want to survive but why should that be at the cost of others. I owe these people nothing - you know if we were on a lifeboat made for 20 and there was 20 already on it and another 30 people in the water then whilst it would not be nice the fact remains you either save 20 out of 50 or you end up losing all 50 because you tried to do too much with limited resources.

If we are too nice to immigrants and tolerate too much then Europe will become swamped because there will no incentive for people to remain where they are and make their life work. In my opinion, we need to start looking at where we put foreign aid and stop using it to facilitate business and to start raising the standard of living for people so they have no need to leave in the first place.

 

[Trifid]

When you let in circa 1,000,000 refugees into your country you are bound to get a few radicalised/ plain crazy people included in the mix.

Which is why you can't just open up your borders to the world when there are those out there that want to do harm to those you are meant to protect.

 

[Freakbro]

In my opinion, we need to start looking at where we put foreign aid and stop using it to facilitate business and to start raising the standard of living for people so they have no need to leave in the first place.

Absolutely agree, but it seems a lot of the people who are the most vocal against refugees are the same ones who are totally against any foreign aid budget as well.

As well as complaining about our contributions to the EU when the poorer countries in the EU are net beneficiaries, when it's for exactly the reason you state above, to improve the standard of living in those countries - which in the end will benefit us.

 

[puppetworx]

Guess what happens to an economy when a large percentage of young males decide to leave for another country?

Immigration is destroying third world economies, yet people act as if it's kindness.

 

[Xordium]

Absolutely agree, but it seems a lot of the people who are the most vocal against refugees are the same ones who are totally against any foreign aid budget as well.

I can see both sides here. In my opinion that nature of that region and the societies it breeds often means that dictator type characters over time inflict the lesser evil. I disagreed with removing the leadership. The simple fact is these dictators will never rock the boat too far because it will impinge on their wealth collection.

Unless that is if someone can point me to a instance where removing a authoritarian leader has worked out in that region? I can't think of one tbh but I can think of loads where it's all gone wrong afterwards.

The thing is we are wealthy but largely we earned that - yes we were gifted good education (or not so good depending where you come from, security in our youth etc and opportunities but we made something of that. You can't just then take that away from people otherwise you are penalising success. That doesn't though remove the onus on those who have succeeded to provide a greater contribution to those who never had that opportunity.

We all know the Guardianistas though will SJW everywhere but they won't actually invite 10 of these blokes into their own home and leave them alone with their teenage daughters. And there is a problem too the people who are pro-immigration are often the people who never have to suffer the effects to their immediate community.

It's the old adage of giving someone a rod rather than the fish. That's why the aid budget should be doing. TBH you could arguably save a lot from the MoD if you stopped half of this rubbish and end up with a net spending reduction across the board.

 

[RaohNS]

If you are going back that far then that is a time period that included the Crusades.
It is a gross distortion to say that Islam has ever as a whole been 'obsessed' with blood and death.

The crusades were a blip on history when comparing Islamic conquests.

Lets not forget who the first to wage a crusade were and who were/are the last (hint they are still doing it today)

 

[estebanrey]

Unless that is if someone can point me to a instance where removing a authoritarian leader has worked out in that region?

Germany (1945)

 

[Terminal_Boy]

Welfare state or open borders.

Pick one.

 

[Freakbro]

I can see both sides here. In my opinion that nature of that region and the societies it breeds often means that dictator type characters over time inflict the lesser evil. I disagreed with removing the leadership. The simple fact is these dictators will never rock the boat too far because it will impinge on their wealth collection.

Unless that is if someone can point me to a instance where removing a authoritarian leader has worked out in that region? I can't think of one tbh but I can think of loads where it's all gone wrong afterwards.

That's a good assessment of a dictator and as much as anyone wouldn't want to support a dictatorial regime, you can understand in actual reality how they can sometimes unfortunately be the lesser of two evils.

As for the countless times it goes wrong when we do depose them, I think the majority of that is due to either our own lack of any sort of planning for after the event or putting in our own despot because it furthers our own agenda.

It's the old adage of giving someone a rod rather than the fish. That's why the aid budget should be doing. TBH you could arguably save a lot from the MoD if you stopped half of this rubbish and end up with a net spending reduction across the board.

Yep, though it's the same in their countries as in ours. The money goes to business/the wealthy which increases the GDP of receipient country which in turn boosts business for the donor (I'm under no illusion our foreign aid budget is not entirely altruistic) but as the last 30 years have shown us, trickle down economics is a fallacy and the people who actually need the help rarely get to see it.

 

[HAz]

Can we rename this thread to the daily German terrorism thread?

 

[mid_gen]

I They're already in a country where no-one wants them there. How do you build a future for yourself and for your family.

Most decent Germans are happy to take in the refugees, and don't tar the whole group with the actions of a tiny minority. Always fundraising going on and plenty of people I know are volunteering at refugee programs. There is definitely a singnificant number of people in the 'sendem back' camp but they are a minority.

The majority of them don't want to build a life in Germany, they just want to go back to their homes. Sooner we get this mess in Syria/Iraq sorted the sooner they can go and rebuild their country.

 

[Darujhistan]

Germany (1945)

And Mussolini.

 

[Xordium]

Germany (1945)

Oh, well I've learned something today - Germany is in the Middle East, well I never! No wonder it didn't take all those Syrians that long to get there ...

 

[Xordium]

trickle down economics is a fallacy and the people who actually need the help rarely get to see it.

I think it's quite apparent it has been and always will be trickle up.

 

[estebanrey]

Oh, well I've learned something today - Germany is in the Middle East, well I never! No wonder it didn't take all those Syrians that long to get there ...

You didn't say 'Middle East', you said 'that region' which in the context of the question you were asking implied 'that' meant the region they were a dictator in.

 

[Cosimo]

Can we rename this thread to the daily German terrorism thread?

I've asked.