Am I audiophile tone deaf?

[Things change I've changed]

I recently received an mdac+, this is a highly reviewed headphone amp/dac combo, I would say mid to high end, barely anyone has anything bad to say about it, I received mine this morning, and have been testing it all day with my AKG K612's K712's, and Grado SR225e's, I volume matched it my M-Stage HPA-1 using my PC's X-fi as the DAC, and the Gods honest truth I'm struggling to hear a difference, now when I upgraded to the HPA-1 from an old mixing amp I certainly heard an upgrade, but I am shocked that I can't hear the same with the MDAC+, now either I just don't have an audiophile's ear or perhaps the M-Stage really is a good amp for the money? but then that doesn't explain the DAC?, maybe I was expecting too much but I've spent the best part of the day comparing them I really think in a blind test I wouldn't know which was which!

 

[rids57]

The M-Stage is a very good amp and brilliant value, just a shame they are not more readily available in the UK.

I think you will eventually find that the new amp is a little better but you are into the area of diminishing returns.

I think the best way to differentiate the two is to listen to the new amp exclusively for a few days and then go back to the M-Stage. That way you will be well acquainted with the new sound and any shortcomings in the m-stage should be more apparent.

 

[himen256]

Maybe it needs to burn in? And some adjustments? Like EQ? My HD600 with more than 8k hours burn in will sound a bit flat without adding a bit off bass and moving highs up a bit.

 

[Things change I've changed]

Yeah before I hit the 'return to sender' button I think I will let it burn in for a couple of days and mess about with the filters for a bit, I'm definitely glad I got because at the very least like rids57 said it really does show how good the M-Stage is for the money, I guess it was very popular for a reason.

 

[Noxia]

I thought 'burn in' with electronics was just a myth.

 

[danza]

I'm pretty sure it is. You and your ears are what 'burn in'. Some headphones scale better and respond differently with different gear, some less so which could be what's happening here.

Some electronics need a little while to warm up, though.

 

[Safetytrousers]

I thought 'burn in' with electronics was just a myth.

On good headphones burn is real. The glues used in the drivers do change with use giving a difference. The difference is small and over time so you probably won't notice, but in A/B you might. Sometimes the difference is clear. Same applies to speaker cones.

As for the OP, diminishing returns is the phrase that comes to mind. Also £200ish headphones will probably be good but they are not the highest end.
I think it doesn't take so much nowadays to make a DAC that is all you could want. If what you are feeding your phones with is giving you all your phones can give already, it doesn't how much 'better' the source you feed them with is.

 

[Ayahuasca]

Yeah the DAC makes next to no difference if any, an electronics engineer made a thread about them on headfi explaining it all, will try to find it.

In regards to the AMP, I've only noticed a difference from my O2/ODAC when going to a tube amp but that difference is to be expected. However there are headphones out there that respond very well to better amping such as the HD650's.

 

[PapaLazaru]

Diminishing returns are definitely coming into play, though I have been in touch with lowrider as I sold him the K712 and I think something might be wrong with the unit. He's saying they need to turn the volume pot nearly up to max to get decent levels and that is not right. My Marantz HD DAC1 I can't even get far past halfway for fear of blowing up my headphones including the K712's.

 

[Things change I've changed]

I've sent it back today,

A few issues, it honestly didn't sound a lot different from the M-Stage, and I think that says a lot about how good that little amp is, like I said in the OP, when I upgraded to the M-Stage from a mediocre mixing amp it blew me away, it made my K612's sing and they are not easy to drive at all.

On quieter sources like classical music I really had to push the volume up to nearly max, really didn't feel like I had any headroom left which was disconcerting.

Fixed lineout is ridiculously loud, I couldn't really move the volume dial on my amp past 9pm, so was a pain to adjust the volume accurately, the only solution to that really is to use in-line attenuators.

No headphone out gain settings, this was unexpected to for me as they are very common on headphone amps these days.

Another small niggle was having to unplug the headphones all the time to activate the lineout, I think that is ridiculous for any desktop amp with a fixed lineout.

The lasting impression I got from the M-DAC+ was that it was a hi-fi dac first and headphone amp second.

I have a Marantz HD-DAC1 coming next week, as long as it powers the cans well I think that will be it for me, look forward to auditioning it.

 

[Rroff]

I thought 'burn in' with electronics was just a myth.

Very mixed story - with most Sennheiser headphones I notice pretty much no difference after 100s of hours except some minor bass extension/presence.

 

[himen256]

Very mixed story - with most Sennheiser headphones I notice pretty much no difference after 100s of hours except some minor bass extension/presence.

On my HD600 first 100h was very noticeable bass was better more dynamic. After 5k overall sound is more pleasant on the ear. Most of high end eq is tested before so the initial bit is not that visible. I still think that you have to put 100hs to be sure the sound their best.

 

[rids57]

at the rate a headphone diaphragm vibrates it should be bedded in within a few minutes, a couple of hours at most - human brains take a little longer.

 

[PapaLazaru]

Did you get the Marantz yet?

 

[deFiniLoGy]

The K712 Pro probably is not resolving enough to let you hear the difference?

Also, despite everyone's ear function the same, higher processing of audio input is different from individual to individual, so if you can't hear it then you can either train yourself to pick up the difference or settle with what you've already got and enjoy the music, since that's what these are all about after all.

 

[Ayahuasca]

There are those that don't enjoy music in its pure analytical form either, where you can hear every little individual thing going on, I think many people prefer a sound that swings towards warm and bassy.

There's plenty of low budget amps around now that power the majority of headphones just fine and above that you're looking at diminishing returns for hundreds of pounds spent. My NAD HP50's sound just as good out of my iphone than they do through my O2/ODAC.

 

[deFiniLoGy]

There are those that don't enjoy music in its pure analytical form either, where you can hear every little individual thing going on, I think many people prefer a sound that swings towards warm and bassy.

^Exactly.

Audiophile doesn't mean whoever can hear the difference, audiophile means whether one actually enjoy listening to music and understand the joy behind that.

 

[rids57]

An audiophile is someone with a keen interest in hi-fidelity audio reproduction, the music itself is of little importance.

 

[spoffle]

A lot of audiophiles have very vivid imaginations and are afflicted with a condition that causes them to get rid of their money as quickly as possible.

There are some utterly bizarre claims in the audio world that just have no scientific proof to back it up.

This makes it really difficult to find useful reviews of more interesting stuff, as it's just a load of people talking ***** about things they're imagining.

 

[Pottsey]

I thought 'burn in' with electronics was just a myth.

Most of the time it is but some electronics do have a burn in.