Minority Conservative Government 2017 - ?

[Caged]

I think it's a stretch to throw around accusations of a u-turn based on that NME interview - I'm frankly not seeing where the pledge to write off tuition fee loan debt was made, and the whole Tory PR argument seems to rely on interpreting the phrase "I will deal with it" completely in isolation to the previous three paragraphs.

I appreciate there's an argument here that any misunderstanding could have been corrected nearer the time, and really it should have been. But if we continue down this path of more or less making stuff up to score imaginary points with a minority of people who care about politics then good luck trying to get any sort of engagement with voters.

 

[ianh]

It's not what you think thats the issue, it what thousands of students thought, which was mostly the same thing, that his "I'll deal with it" statement was a "pledge" instead of a "politicians promise" which is meaningless.

However now those same students may (or may not) had their eyes opened a little into the world of "adult" politics where people will lie to gain votes and don't really care about the fallout.

Personally the now known figure of £100bn makes it impossible to ever carry out his "promise" but a stop of future payments is still a possibility, regardless of who is in power, as it's a vote winner for the youth (aka the voters of tomorrow).

 

[StriderX]

Lol...

Making a massive fuss over a party that ISNT in power is the new low.

/popcorn

 

[Macro]

I think it's a stretch to throw around accusations of a u-turn based on that NME interview - I'm frankly not seeing where the pledge to write off tuition fee loan debt was made, and the whole Tory PR argument seems to rely on interpreting the phrase "I will deal with it" completely in isolation to the previous three paragraphs.

I appreciate there's an argument here that any misunderstanding could have been corrected nearer the time, and really it should have been. But if we continue down this path of more or less making stuff up to score imaginary points with a minority of people who care about politics then good luck trying to get any sort of engagement with voters.

I think it's fairly clear how "I don’t see why those that had the historical misfortune to be at university during the £9,000 period should be burdened excessively compared to those that went before or those that come after. I will deal with it.” could be construed as an intention to wipe debts. I struggle to give any credence to Labour PR now trying to suggest this was in no way was designed to cynically get votes from young voters based on "free money". Corbyn had the option, both at the time and subsequently to clearly say "I don't believe we can write off existing students debts" and instead chose to let young voters believe what suited him in exchange for votes.

It's politics, and no, he didn't give any absolute promise, but I suspect there's more than a few young voters who will be a little more sceptical with politicians who seem to promise all things to all people next time out.

 

[Amp34]

http://www.nme.com/news/jeremy-corbyn-will-deal-already-burdened-student-debt-2082478



Thats what he actually said so you can imagine that, whilst you personally don't think they were talking about existing student debt, students may have thought that he was.

First time I've read what Jc said (never having assumed he was talking about past debts) and having read it it's very clear he's saying he will look at helping people with 9,000 a year tuition debts manage it. There's no indication in there of him wiping their debts, he even gave examples of how he would help - which didn't include wiping those debts.

Unless you take the "I will deal with it" line out of context there's just no way that reads as anything else. Now if it was misreported, which is pretty common but nothing to do with him, then perhaps that's where the issue lies.

JC - "I don’t see why those that had the historical misfortune to be at university during the £9,000 period should be burdened excessively compared to those that went before or those that come after. I will deal with it.”

My my, don't you look a bit of a **** now? Perhaps reading the detail next time before you shoot your mouth, hopefully you're studying something with pictures.

And he gave examples -

I’m looking at ways that we could reduce that, ameliorate that, lengthen the period of paying it off, or some other means of reducing that debt burden

So no, in this case StriderX is right. There's no indication in there that he would write it off for past students, rather try and make their debt easier to deal with. The only way you can do that is cut off the prior examples he gave as ways of dealing with it, just as you just did.

 

[Amp34]

It's not what you think thats the issue, it what thousands of students thought, which was mostly the same thing, that his "I'll deal with it" statement was a "pledge" instead of a "politicians promise" which is meaningless.

However now those same students may (or may not) had their eyes opened a little into the world of "adult" politics where people will lie to gain votes and don't really care about the fallout.

Personally the now known figure of £100bn makes it impossible to ever carry out his "promise" but a stop of future payments is still a possibility, regardless of who is in power, as it's a vote winner for the youth (aka the voters of tomorrow).

Well tbh if it forces people to sit up and actually read what someone said, rather than trust heresay and out of context news reports then it's certainly a good thing.

As Caged said, perhaps there should have been more clarification from any misunderstanding closer to the time, but there's not really any ambiguity when the comment is put in context of the whole paragraph.

In the list of examples he gave of dealing with it there was no indication of wiping out the debts.

 

[stewski]

It's not what you think thats the issue, it what thousands of students thought, which was mostly the same thing, that his "I'll deal with it" statement was a "pledge" instead of a "politicians promise" which is meaningless.

However now those same students may (or may not) had their eyes opened a little into the world of "adult" politics where people will lie to gain votes and don't really care about the fallout.

Personally the now known figure of £100bn makes it impossible to ever carry out his "promise" but a stop of future payments is still a possibility, regardless of who is in power, as it's a vote winner for the youth (aka the voters of tomorrow).

Are you one of those students? How do you know what they thought?
As it happens I have student loan debt and did not expect a Labour government to wipe the slate.

 

[chroniclard]

Clutching at straws is a general theme of all politics.

 

[Macro]

Are you one of those students? How do you know what they thought?
As it happens I have student loan debt and did not expect a Labour government to wipe the slate.

So you'd be happy with students before you being debt free, students starting this year and going forward being debt free and you lumbered with £30k+ of debt? Given his statement that people with student loans should not be burdened compared to those without and that he would "deal with it" I think it entirely reasonable for a student to think this amounted to wiping the debt. It was certainly the inference and designed to buy votes from students who saw a significant financial gain for themselves in return for voting JC into No10.

 

[stewski]

So you'd be happy with students before you being debt free, students starting this year and going forward being debt free and you lumbered with £30k+ of debt? Given his statement that people with student loans should not be burdened compared to those without and that he would "deal with it" I think it entirely reasonable for a student to think this amounted to wiping the debt. It was certainly the inference and designed to buy votes from students who saw a significant financial gain for themselves in return for voting JC into No10.

The question remains, are you one of those students, I am!
The two main parties have a differing position on student debt and I know which I find preferable and I suspect that position is more representative of those with student debt than yours!

 

[garnett]

I'd love to know whether any of those desperately trying to misinterpret Corbyn, were some of those utterly duped (by stuff written on buses etc) in the referendum.

 

[Rroff]

I'd love to know whether any of those desperately trying to misinterpret Corbyn, were some of those utterly duped (by stuff written on buses etc) in the referendum.

Eh come on Corbyn knew what he was doing - might be plain to many of us unaffected by it that he never made a committal but its also fairly plain that he played on what certain people wanted to believe when he could have been much more straightforward.

 

[PapaLazaru]

He explained it in full, it is not his fault if some of the press picked it up as a headline and deliberately misconstrued it.

That's just politics, is really is clutching at straws to suggest otherwise, especially with the blatant backtracking of the current government, which I one I had voted for for the last few years till the last GE. And I didn't vote Labour either.

JC is one of the most honest politicians we are likely to see as a leader of a party, ever.

 

[RDM]

He explained it in full, it is not his fault if some of the press picked it up as a headline and deliberately misconstrued it.

That's just politics, is really is clutching at straws to suggest otherwise, especially with the blatant backtracking of the current government, which I one I had voted for for the last few years till the last GE. And I didn't vote Labour either.

JC is one of the most honest politicians we are likely to see as a leader of a party, ever.

Personally, I disagree. I think Corbyn is just another politician. The train incident is one example, the back tracking on Marxism is another, his support of Irish Republicanism another. He was ambiguous enough about student fees to get the support he needed, just like other politicians.

 

[garnett]

Personally, I disagree. I think Corbyn is just another politician... his support of Irish Republicanism... was... enough to get the support he needed.

Not quite sure how you square that. The "support for republicanism" and the "bankruptcy of the UK to pay off student debt" were just two spin themes peddled by the Mail, weren't they?

I don't think Corbyn would make a good PM, but its a measure of bad the Conservatives are right now that he is suddenly in the running.

 

[RDM]

Not quite sure how you square that. The "support for republicanism" and the "bankruptcy of the UK to pay off student debt" were just two spin themes peddled by the Mail, weren't they?

I don't think Corbyn would make a good PM, but its a measure of bad the Conservatives are right now that he is suddenly in the running.

No, he has been a long time supporter of a united Ireland, it is fairly common on the left as Northern Ireland is an example of Imperialism. That has recently had to change to "supporting the peace process" but that was damage control.

 

[platypus]

I'm still wondering why more isn't being made of Theresa May bribing the DUP.

 

[garnett]

No, he has been a long time supporter of a united Ireland, it is fairly common on the left as Northern Ireland is an example of Imperialism. That has recently had to change to "supporting the peace process" but that was damage control.

Ah, I see. I was misinterpreting what you wrote - I thought you were somehow suggesting that his support for a united Ireland was a vote-winning trick, but you were talking about his subsequent change to "supporting the peace process". Fair enough.

I'm still wondering why more isn't being made of Theresa May bribing the DUP.

I have to hold my hands up - I know little about whether there's any sort of equivalence between Corbyn's "links to terrorists" for whatever he has said or done versus PM May giving the DUP £1Bn. Has anyone read a balanced article from a reputable source?

 

[bobbyspangles]

He even fooled one of his own Shadow Ministers it seems.

 

[dowie]

he knew exactly what he was trying to imply when he announced it, people trying to claim he's not back tracing are being rather dubious... it is like trying to argue that the conservatives weren't backtracking because they didn't initially mention both a cap and a floor when proposing social care changes




I've got to wonder, supposing they did actually try to introduce this idea of wiping everyone's debts... wouldn't it be a bit unfair on those who have paid theirs off sooner or who had made overpayments (for whatever reason) - should they then get a refund?