Rees-Mogg: increased usage of food banks 'uplifting'

[dowie]

abortion helps cut crime, reduces reliance on welfare etc.. frankly abortion and birth control need to be encouraged more, especially among people getting pregnant in their teens with no means of supporting the child themselves

 

[Werewolf]

abortion helps cut crime, reduces reliance on welfare etc.. frankly abortion and birth control need to be encouraged more, especially among people getting pregnant in their teens with no means of supporting the child themselves

Aye, as I've said I'm not a great fan of abortion, but there is quite a correlation between pretty much every society where women get birth control and (to a lesser extent) abortion, and them getting a better education because they're not dropping out of education as young to look after children, and how the country does in terms of financially and stability.
It's almost like not having half the population tied up for much of their life looking after children, and being educated (thus able to take a more active role in many areas) is a good thing for the society.

The other thing that a lot of the "they're out breeding us" (like it's a competition) crowd tend to not acknowledge is that birth rates pretty much stabilise after a generation or so of the education and availability of healthcare becoming widespread, as large families are typically largely a response to death in childhood and the need for large manual workforces for farming etc.

 

[dowie]

The other thing that a lot of the "they're out breeding us" (like it's a competition) crowd tend to not acknowledge is that birth rates pretty much stabilise after a generation or so of the education and availability of healthcare becoming widespread, as large families are typically largely a response to death in childhood and the need for large manual workforces for farming etc.

indeed (from approx 3 mins or so onwards):

this guy ^^^ (Hans Rosling) is awesome, if anyone's not seen his talks before it's worth watching, sadly he passed away last year:

 

[Vonhelmet]

The bit that troubles me most with outlawing abortion is the fact that the demand will then only be met by outlaws... on the back streets, off the books, with second rate dirty equipment... Any increase in birth rates could be met by increases in death rates among women. Brilliant.

 

[Outcast]

We are also being Outbred !!

Mooor Babies !!

 

[NVP]

I just had my boy at 27 weeks old, almost had him at 24 weeks but we're extremely lucky he hung on. They are people from very early on, tiny, tiny people. Murder is murder regardless of how you shape it.

 

[D.P.]

The bit that troubles me most with outlawing abortion is the fact that the demand will then only be met by outlaws... on the back streets, off the books, with second rate dirty equipment... Any increase in birth rates could be met by increases in death rates among women. Brilliant.

This is exactly why at least moderate right wingers with more than 2 brain cells are in support of legal abortion. If you make abortion ilegal then women will try all kinds of 'home remedies' that mostly only make them I'll or injure the unborn baby, or they travel to locations where abortion is legal but do so under the radar, or they go to some backstreet witch doctor and end up with serious health problems. And if the baby does.come.to term they can end up dumped at hospitals, or worse killed and buried in the back yard.


The horrific thing is those that are most against abortion also tend to oppose sex education, family planning clinics, free contraceptives, propose abstinence to teenagers and pretend they are pro-life even although they don't care one it about the life once the baby is born. The pro-life demographic are much more likely to.support.cspital punishment, don't care about white cops murdering innocent black victims, don't believe that poor children should receive food aid at school, don't believe poor families deserve tax rebates, don't believe that helath acre is a basic right regardless of finances.

 

[sports_brah]

All developed nations eventually hit a point where birth rates decline. Banning abortion won't stop that.

This is still a new concept for society so I don't think we can or should just shrug our shoulders and say it'll be grand...

Not you necessarily, but it is something I have noticed a lot from the most vocal opponents of things like birth control and abortion, where when you dig down into their argument it comes down to a view that women should be in traditional roles and combined with a level of racism ("the X are outbreeding us because our women are working and choosing that over lots of children").
It's especially apparent in the "mens rights" types and "traditionalists" in the US.

I may be getting rather cynical, as the most vocal anti abortion types seem to be either "religious" (usually only in the parts they like*), can't understand why women don't fall at their feet, or people that don't think women are able to make decisions on their own, or all three, and once you notice the pattern it's hard to ignore.


*Anti abortion and "an eye for an eye", but very much ignore the "good Samaritan" or "love they neighbour" parts of the Bible.

But again I haven't said anything, so you're extrapolating a lot from little....a reason why everything is becoming so polarised nowadays. There are plenty of forward thinking religious and non religious people who can put forward cogent arguments against abortion.

Why refer to an unborn foetus as a child?
Why are you promoting the removal of a woman's right to do whatever they want with their bodies? If you feel that women need legislation to restrict how they use their own bodies then you don't appear to think they are entitled to be treated equally. Society doesn't have babies, women do. I agree, we should want and expect the best for people, but on what basis do we have that your opinion is 'better' than someone else's, especially as you aren't a woman (BIG assumption here, nothing inferred by it!)?

So a "foetus" the day before birth isn't a child? When exactly is it a child? If you like I can clarify myself better and say call it potentially viable child..

and if you consider it a child then are there not rights that it might have? Or should woman have the rights to terminate up to day of birth? Hell, the child can't live by itself so why should woman have to keep it alive? Why are we not allowed to take drugs and do what we want? When you look at a lot of laws you could question what we are allowed to do...

abortion helps cut crime, reduces reliance on welfare etc.. frankly abortion and birth control need to be encouraged more, especially among people getting pregnant in their teens with no means of supporting the child themselves

Birth control I can understand, abortion I really cannot.

Might help if we promoted abstinence as well, possibly the virtues of marriage? Perhaps if we stopped over sexualising everything from a young age, it would be less of a problem? Rather than putting people through the mill of an abortion?

We are also being Outbred !!

Mooor Babies !!

Not really a case of that (and sounds more ridiculous when you consider my lineage isn't native to the UK). However I would say that society needs a certain stability to function properly. If we aim to change the face of society in a short period of time, you're going to get a lot of dissatisfaction and resentment. Then you get people leaving and your place has more and more tensions (looking at you here america!).

 

[sports_brah]

This is exactly why at least moderate right wingers with more than 2 brain cells are in support of legal abortion. If you make abortion ilegal then women will try all kinds of 'home remedies' that mostly only make them I'll or injure the unborn baby, or they travel to locations where abortion is legal but do so under the radar, or they go to some backstreet witch doctor and end up with serious health problems. And if the baby does.come.to term they can end up dumped at hospitals, or worse killed and buried in the back yard.

The horrific thing is those that are most against abortion also tend to oppose sex education, family planning clinics, free contraceptives, propose abstinence to teenagers and pretend they are pro-life even although they don't care one it about the life once the baby is born. The pro-life demographic are much more likely to.support.cspital punishment, don't care about white cops murdering innocent black victims, don't believe that poor children should receive food aid at school, don't believe poor families deserve tax rebates, don't believe that helath acre is a basic right regardless of finances.

In the space of a paragraph you called it baby twice, and made reference to it being "killed". And yet you still support it? Some mental gymnastics here....

And what exactly is wrong with promoting abstinence?

And not sure about the rant about white cops innocent blacks, capital punishment. Dare I say you are stereotyping?

 

[SPG]

I just had my boy at 27 weeks old, almost had him at 24 weeks but we're extremely lucky he hung on. They are people from very early on, tiny, tiny people. Murder is murder regardless of how you shape it.

It is far far from Murder.

 

[D.P.]

In the space of a paragraph you called it baby twice, and made reference to it being "killed". And yet you still support it? Some mental gymnastics here....

You can call.it whatever you want, doesn't change the facts and doesn't require mental gymnastics, just an actual understanding of the world we live.

And what exactly is wrong with promoting abstinence?

See, typical clueless right-winger. The fact that teaching abstinence provably doesn't work and leads to unwanted or unsupportable pregnancies and thus more abortions for starters.

And not sure about the rant about white cops innocent blacks, capital punishment. Dare I say you are stereotyping?

No, I'm providing statistical facts.

 

[D.P.]

I just had my boy at 27 weeks old, almost had him at 24 weeks but we're extremely lucky he hung on. They are people from very early on, tiny, tiny people. Murder is murder regardless of how you shape it.

If you redefine what murder is then sure, you can define it as whatever you want it to within your world view

 

[dowie]

Birth control I can understand, abortion I really cannot.

Might help if we promoted abstinence as well, possibly the virtues of marriage? Perhaps if we stopped over sexualising everything from a young age, it would be less of a problem? Rather than putting people through the mill of an abortion?

abstinence doesn't tend to work very well, young people are gonna do what they've always done...

Yup though birth control is the thing to promote more... abortion should be a last resort not a form of birth control, but easy access to the morning after pill or indeed other early stage medical/non-surgical abortion are important. I really don't understand why some religious people have an issue with this - you're essentially disposing of a small mass of cells, it is ethically little different to masturbating and worrying about all the sperm you've just killed (then again some religious people have issues with that too).

 

[Vonhelmet]

You seem to be worried about declining population growth. You can't force people to breed.

 

[Tefal]

The other thing that a lot of the "they're out breeding us" (like it's a competition) crowd tend to not acknowledge is that birth rates pretty much stabilise after a generation or so of the education and availability of healthcare becoming widespread, as large families are typically largely a response to death in childhood and the need for large manual workforces for farming etc.

it's funny you say that about the xenophobes when youve done just the same but based on wealth.

 

[NVP]

It is far far from Murder.

If you redefine what murder is then sure, you can define it as whatever you want it to within your world view

murder
ˈməːdə/
noun

1. 1.
   the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

I don't see how I mispoke.

 

[RDM]

I don't see how I mispoke.

The word "unlawful" is the most obvious...

 

[NVP]

Ah yes, my bad - haven't slept in 4 weeks.

I guess murder is technically the incorrect word to use, however I think it was clear what I meant.

 

[dowie]

You seem to be worried about declining population growth. You can't force people to breed.

who is?

 

[Tunney]

What I find hypocritical is how people like Rees-Mogg only care about these foetuses/babies until the moment they’re born.

Looking out for other human beings once they’re born? No, that’s not the state’s job.