Cooking with Jonny69: baking bread.

[Martynt74]

I noticed quite a few recipes called for overnight second proves. What do you use for that?

I was going to use cling film but didn't know if that would be more restrictive?

 

[BigBoy]

Oiled cling film loosely put in top so it can move and breath. You need to remember that it's alive and to be at it's best needs air.

 

[Martynt74]

Well had another go yesterday. It still has a bit of a funny taste. It looks much more breadlike this time around but still looks quite dense inside rather than the big air gaps you'd expect.



My starter looks and smells decent though i have no real reference point.

 

[jpaul]

I noticed quite a few recipes called for overnight second proves. What do you use for that?

I am lazy(economical on electricity ?) and make sourdough in a bread machine, preparing a starter(kept in fridge) & part-of-flour(80g from 500g) mix the night before,
I forget it is called a poulis,or something like that ?
but machine does do two proves a knock back, and then final one, over a total of 5 hours.
I am sure you have discovered fresh loaf resource
The Paul Hollywood san francisco city bakes programme, on this week, showed some good and bad sourdough's.

edit: I take 6tbs starter/80g flour/120g of water and it is throthing up significantly, after overnight prep.

 

[famas]

Been a while since I've had a bash at a baguette so I thought I would give it a go today.

About 70% hydration (didn't want to go too wet for my first go) Was pleased with the results. Ever so slightly underprooved, but not bad for my first go.

These look great, do you have a recipe?

 

[lego]

These look great, do you have a recipe?

Umm, was just baguettes, so just the basic 2% salt, 2% yeast and about 75% hydration, I may of added 1% sprint/improver. I generally prove them overnight in a couche, then peel them over to a tray just before cooking.

For full disclosure I should add that I work in a French patisserie, so 2 of the guys there have the very best of training, therefore I've had great teachers / advice. (You can catch them on this years Bakeoff Creme de la creme on BBC2, it's Laurian and Thibault from the Pink team.

 

[jpaul]

Yes the baguettes look excellent - were they done at home ? ... some kind of special steam oven

.. so is the series filiming ongoing ? is the result already known to the contenders

 

[lego]

Yes the baguettes look excellent - were they done at home ? ... some kind of special steam oven

.. so is the series filiming ongoing ? is the result already known to the contenders

I don't think any of these shows are filmed as they are aired, I've signed an NDA so I really can't talk about it.

The baguettes were cooked in a combi oven, 220ish with 70% steam for the first 5 minutes. I can get similar results at home with a cast iron combo cooker (although a smaller amount) If you can pick up a copy of Tartine Bread by Chad Roberston, its a great book!

 

[jpaul]

Does anyone regularly make Soda bread - tried a sample in M&S and the flavour/texture is good.
any gottcha's to look out for, or recipe tweaks.

have recc'ed Mr Hollywoods recipe

- 250g plain white flour
- 250g plain wholemeal flour
- 1 tsp salt
- 1 tsp bicarbonate of soda
- About 400ml buttermilk

usually make exclusively sourdough, so the rising agent is free versus starting to buy buttermilk, which will probbaly cost the same as the flour
(could try the lemon juice milk yoghurt strategy and start buying lemons)

I guess this will not work in a Panasonic bread machine (using bake only) since probably does not heat up fast enough, before CO2 is lost.

 

[BigBoy]

I make soda bread just using natural yogurt, no need for the lemon/milk, all you need the dairy fats for is to interact with the Bicarb.

It wont work in a bread machine, not to be a by hand and oven mix. The key is not to over mix the dough, just mix the dry together then add the wet in one go, give it a quick mix so most of the flour is combined, it does not matter if there is some left over, I find it easier to combine by hand for that rough textured loaf feel.

 

[Tone1979]

I used to make Soda Bread a lot and recently with my new quest, I have started making it more. It takes about 5 mins to make a loaf.

I used the Hollywood recipe at the weekend and subbed buttermilk for Kefir and it worked perfectly as BigBoy says yogurt will work too for the same reasons.

You can't use a bread machine as if you over work it, you will end up with a large hockey puck.

This is what it looks like, it is barely worked together -

This is how that loaf turned out when scored on top -

 

[jpaul]

Thanks, ok, the natural yoghurt , or kafir sound good alternatives ..
had wondered how important the balance of the milk based liquid/acid versus the bicarb/alkali quantity is, to avoid any final taste of bicarb, and buttermilk seems slightly more acidic.

Had not appreciated strong flour not needed either since gluten not important, that link and others also propose wrapping in damp tea-towel during cooling to avoid heavy crust.

by the bread machine - I meant just the bake part only, so no mixing, just for convenience, tin may keep moisture in too.

 

[Tone1979]

Thanks, ok, the natural yoghurt , or kafir sound good alternatives ..
had wondered how important the balance of the milk based liquid/acid versus the bicarb/alkali quantity is, to avoid any final taste of bicarb, and buttermilk seems slightly more acidic.

Had not appreciated strong flour not needed either since gluten not important, that link and others also propose wrapping in damp tea-towel during cooling to avoid heavy crust.

by the bread machine - I meant just the bake part only, so no mixing, just for convenience, tin may keep moisture in too.

yeah I wrap mine in a dry clean cloth to keep the bread cooking a little and making the crust soft. Some love a really hard crust, but not me!

 

[Tone1979]

Been a while since I've had a bash at a baguette so I thought I would give it a go today.

About 70% hydration (didn't want to go too wet for my first go) Was pleased with the results. Ever so slightly underprooved, but not bad for my first go.

that is some amazing looking bread!

 

[jpaul]

what flour are you typically using ?
I usually used Waitrose own Brown, their 100% wholemeal never rises much for me. (Carrs/allinson not better, just more expensive, Asda/tescos poor)
The Princes' strong Malted bread flour, has a good flavour too. - none of the above stoneground

Bachelde stoneground strong flour on Amazon wholemeal looks reasonable value 16KG £19 , they do both a fine and normal grind ?, would be interesting to try the oak smoked

 

[FrenchTart]

With wholemeal you should generally mix it with regular flour rather than just go pure wholemeal.

 

[jpaul]

yes - I consider brown as pre-mixed wholemeal ? 85% of the whole grain, versus 100%
EDIT: becheldre says 81% so a 4 wholemeal+ 1 white mix

 

[jpaul]

trial run worked out - using ~110ml fluid from a fromage blanc, 1/2tsp salt+bicarb, 80g wholewheat,150g white
no taste of bicarb, also put a damp cloth on it as it was cooling, to keep crust soft.

compared to regular sourdough, it is perhaps, a more honest taste of the underlying wheat,
if any lasts, I'm sure it will be good for toast too, dense bread that absorbs butter always is.
(bakewell tart done too.)

 

[Tone1979]

I use half organic wholemeal from Waitrose and half strong Canadian white.

Makes a nice loaf

 

[jpaul]

Listened to food programme on R4

The Future of Bread
The Food Programme
Dan Saladino talks to Modernist Bread author, Nathan Myhrvold, about one of the biggest bread research projects ever undertaken, which involved the baking of 36,000 loaves

the book costs the earth £350 !

worth listening too - what I learned
- benefit of adding a few drops of fresh pineapple juice / kiwi juice / or Vitamin C into the dough apparently improves texture
- Do not need to knead dough can just mix and leave for 7 hours / overnight

- moreover he said favourite recipe is sourdough with chocolate and cherries - I thought I would need to spend £350, but found an alternative source
https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1018955-chocolate-cherry-sourdough-bread

pictures look dam good