Adding a 5.1 Receiver + Centre Speaker to Stereo HiFi Setup

[mothermachine]

Thanks Lucid That explains it nicely. Basically I go all-in and replace the Yamaha or I stay as-is then.

I am also eyeing up that Sony, yes, nice bit of kit there. And if it does better in the music department then that could be a great option. I am going to head down to my local RS and see if I can demo both of these and get some general advice on the whole setup.

Thanks again

 

[mothermachine]

buy an AV amp and a new CD/BD player and ditch the stereo (or move it to another room).

This is where I'm heading with this now, I think... for simplicity's sake. I can also then shove the Yamaha in my bedroom with some mini speakers and get a nice upstairs system going, which the missus will appreciate anyway. Could be a win-win...

 

[tom_nieto]

This is where I'm heading with this now, I think... for simplicity's sake. I can also then shove the Yamaha in my bedroom with some mini speakers and get a nice upstairs system going, which the missus will appreciate anyway. Could be a win-win...

Yep, definitely keep it simple. I ditched my surround setup for simplicity’s sake a few years ago as it was a faff every time I wanted to use it - similar setup to what is being suggested above and running the fronts off a separate integrated amp. Sounded great when it was up and running but just not worth the hassle. One day I’ll get another, just not yet!

 

[hornetstinger]

Yep, definitely keep it simple. I ditched my surround setup for simplicity’s sake a few years ago as it was a faff every time I wanted to use it - similar setup to what is being suggested above and running the fronts off a separate integrated amp. Sounded great when it was up and running but just not worth the hassle. One day I’ll get another, just not yet!

Or simply have two systems

Have a nice stereo system, pre-power 2 channel Hi-Fi, maybe sub as well with decent floorstander speakers
And a nice av pre-power 7 channel or atmos home cinema with decent standmount of floorstander speakers

A av pre-power is the same to use as a AVR, if you get a multi-channel power amplifier, and your AV pre has a 12v trigger you don't even need to switch the power amp on

 

[mothermachine]

Or simply have two systems

Have a nice stereo system, pre-power 2 channel Hi-Fi, maybe sub as well with decent floorstander speakers
And a nice av pre-power 7 channel or atmos home cinema with decent standmount of floorstander speakers

A av pre-power is the same to use as a AVR, if you get a multi-channel power amplifier, and your AV pre has a 12v trigger you don't even need to switch the power amp on

Deffo not enough space to have two sets of speakers. I only have space for 3 physical speakers as it is: 2 x front + 1 x centre. No room for sub, even.

 

[hornetstinger]

You really need a subwoofer in a home theatre. That's where all the low bass goes.
Smallest sub I'd recommend would be something like this

http://www.bkelec.com/hifi/sub_woofers/gemini.htm

 

[jpaul]

a different angle - if you have not already read this, for example
https://www.howtogeek.com/218949/htg-explains-why-the-dialogue-on-your-hdtv-is-too-quiet/

the middle channel is not exclusively voice, so if its something like Dunkirk (personally do not get why we want all these over-powering sound effects) then even having 3.0 may not fix your problem.

I am in a similar situation, just 2.0 at the moment with indistinct voices, and,
before investing money down the AV receiver route want to do some check out, via an HTPC whether mixing the middle channel into the front left/right could improve things,
it maybe the dynamic range compression options mentioned in the article or equalizing-out the low frequencies that helps more.
I don't care about a sub-woofer either, the existing hifi speakers go adequately low (not interested in percussion from some explosion)
( there are several recent threads where similar requirements to yours have been discussed,with additional data )

 

[hornetstinger]

the existing hifi speakers go adequately low (

Highly unlikely, most floorstanders go to about 40hz, and at that it can't output the levels, or low distortion of a sub. Just because you have a sub doesn't mean you have to blast out 130db.

I would not recommend setting 99% speakers out there as fullrange for movies.

When you have a sub you'll find the other speakers to play cleaner, your amp isn't attempting to drive them full range.

Try borrowing a sub, something like 10", set your speakers to suitable crossover point, run sound levels and calibrate.

 

[lucid]

Deffo not enough space to have two sets of speakers. I only have space for 3 physical speakers as it is: 2 x front + 1 x centre. No room for sub, even.

Although I think he was suggesting it for @tom_nieto, I do sometimes wonder what planet Hornetstinger lives on when an OP says "I just need a small solution" and he comes back with suggestions equivalent to "Find a volcano, hollow it out, build a giant underground super-villain lair complete with monorail"

Do let us know how you get on with your local RS. It'll be interesting to get some real world feedback of your impressions of the three-way comparison for music. This might be something you have to book rather than trying to do as a walk-in.

If you do manage to get the demo organised, make sure to try the receivers in stereo mode and again in pure audio mode if each has the facility. The difference is how much processing circuitry is active. In stereo mode all of the circuits responsible for video processing, scaling, audio effects etc will still be active even if not being used. Pure mode switches all that off and gets the receivers as close to being a 2 channel Hi-Fi amp as it's possible to make them. My own findings are that budget AV receivers don't make so much of the difference, but better receivers can. However, a lot depends on the capabilities of the speakers, and their interaction with the room, and the listening volume. This last is kind of crucial. If the playback is little more than background audio level then there's just not enough scale in the sound to make the resolution differences stand out.

Good luck.

 

[hornetstinger]

Although I think he was suggesting it for @tom_nieto, I do sometimes wonder what planet Hornetstinger lives on when an OP says "I just need a small solution" and he comes back with suggestions equivalent to "Find a volcano, hollow it out, build a giant underground super-villain lair complete with monorail"

Well if you don't one of these, you're a filthy poor peasant

https://www.whathifi.com/news/introducing-eu15m-15-tonne-160kw-amplifier

 

[tom_nieto]

@hornetstinger - you’re definitely a peasant if you don’t have separate music listening and cinema rooms with separate systems One day I’ll be able to setup everything as intended...

Too many years on OcUK has definitely made some of the solutions that I’ve developed at home far too complicated! Reading about people playing with all sorts of tech gadgets tends to rub off after a while! I’ve recently bought a harmony hub (another gadget ) to simplify all the boxes. Highly recommended for the OP if the wife is a bit of an AV technophobe but uses a smartphone.

 

[Scam]

That's the problem with forums like this. If it's not "technically the best" then it's not worth doing (apparently). Sure, a hifi amp will sound better than an AVR but I'd bet in a blind test half the people arguing for that as a solution wouldn't be able to tell the difference! And there's so many other factors involved.. the room, the audio source etc.

As for the Harmony, good shout (although I haven't set mine up yet). Next you need a Google Home so that your wife can tell it to switch to the TV/hifi/bluray etc

 

[lucid]

That's the problem with forums like this. If it's not "technically the best" then it's not worth doing (apparently). Sure, a hifi amp will sound better than an AVR but I'd bet in a blind test half the people arguing for that as a solution wouldn't be able to tell the difference! And there's so many other factors involved.. the room, the audio source etc.

Some of us do try to stay within reasonable limits appropriate to what an OP might be asking.

I think if someone is taking the time to ask a question along the lines of "What's the best way..." then it's not unreasonable to outline the best fidelity option without going mad. It's different if the question is "What's the easiest...?" or "What's the cheapest...?"

Your point about being able to tell the difference is valid.

I've sat down with clients to do a Hi-Fi dem during which it's obvious we've reached their limit. The same thing has happened to me. I was listening to a progression of better CD players, then the dealer suggested we try the external clock. I honestly couldn't tell any difference. But when I asked them to come in the room and tell me if the clock was connected or not (a blind test, though not ABX, obviously) they could nail it every single time. Whatever it was they were hearing in the sound was beyond my comprehension.

Experience and expectations does play a big part in what we find acceptable. You mention Harmony. Thousands of owners think these are miraculous and couldn't imagine needing anything more. I can appreciate that, but my view is different because I'm used to the design freedom of Pronto's, Nevo's and RTI's. By the same token, someone who spends all their time programming AMX and Crestron would be frustrated by the limitations of an RTI remote.

 

[mothermachine]

haha thanks everyone. Yes indeed... for my use case, top of the line is way overkill, and because I'm not able to set a sub in there going 3.0 is my only option. I went into my local RS this morning and discussed everything with a chap there who agreed I've picked out the right components and heading down the right path. I am going to try to get a live demo so I can test the receiver with and without centre channel (so dolby surround V stereo mode). I really don't think that my music enjoyment will suffer much, even at all, going from stereo hifi > AVR setup. My experience with these things, however limited, tells me that the speakers are doing most of the work anyway, rather than the amp itself... so, we shall see.

I do wish RS had a better returns policy 15% restock fee is BIG hit to take if I'm not happy with something, so I might just order online elsewhere so I can keep that option open to me.

 

[jpaul]

Another solution occurred, re-using current hifi.

OPPO-203 - uhd player has hdmi input and 7.1 pre-amp outputs, and class (evn A/v) leading DAC's - caveat ~£600

at a cheaper £40
Audio Decoder, Tendak Digital 5.1 Audio Decoder Converter Digital Surround Analog Sound Decoder HDMI Audio Decoder Extractor Support Decoding Dolby/DTS/AC3 (6RCA Output)

no information on the dac's these use though and I guess neither would not mix the rear l/r into the front l/r
could test drive the latter from Amazon.

 

[mothermachine]

Another solution occurred, re-using current hifi.

OPPO-203 - uhd player has hdmi input and 7.1 pre-amp outputs, and class (evn A/v) leading DAC's - caveat ~£600

at a cheaper £40
Audio Decoder, Tendak Digital 5.1 Audio Decoder Converter Digital Surround Analog Sound Decoder HDMI Audio Decoder Extractor Support Decoding Dolby/DTS/AC3 (6RCA Output)

no information on the dac's these use though and I guess neither would not mix the rear l/r into the front l/r
could test drive the latter from Amazon.

Dude.. thank you. That OPPO... so do I have it right that this would basically remove the need for a separate AV receiver completely? And would it also therefore remove the need for the stereo hifi as well?

Can it just run on its own directly with the 3 x speakers attached, and the TV?

 

[hornetstinger]

Double check that is ok plugging straight into power amplifiers, you don't want your speakers to go bang.

 

[jpaul]

the oppo manual
p15

The UDP-203 is equipped with a 7.1ch analog audio output that can be connected to the 7.1ch analog input section of an A/V receiver or amplifier for audio output. This method is required if the A/V receiver does not have HDMI inputs. It is also a preferred connection method for taking advantage of the UDP-203’s advanced digital-to-analog converter (DAC)

I cannot find electrical levels spec

 

[hornetstinger]

Doesn't sound like it can drive power amplifiers directly, usually 7.1 input is for source to avr, to pre-amp to power amp. Depending on what you want to do of course.

I would not plug in my Oppo BD player 7.1 rca outputs directly into a power amplifier.

 

[tom_nieto]

The Oppo player just has line level outputs for 7.1 channels allowing you to bypass your AV amp's digital audio decoding. If you ignore the rest of the channels you could just plug the front L&R into an integrated stereo amp and use it as a CD player. Don't really see the point personally.

OP - You'd still need an amplifier of some sort to use the Oppo player. This would be an expensive way of not achieving anything for you.