Razer Surround Audio Software Issue

Axekickjack · 16 Feb 2018 at 09:55

Hello,

Im using a Astro A40 headset through a Astro Mix Amp Pro 2013 edition which is connected to my PC via the optical port on my motherboard.

I installed the razer surround software (and uninstalled realtek audio manager) to try get the best audio for FPS games - hear footsteps better, vehicles further away etc. The sound is great and all is working fine to be honest but I've noticed a little issue while playing PUBG.

The sound periodically changes slightly, its kind of hard to explain but it sound like it keeps changing the preset EQ levels. I can mainly hear it in the background noise on PUBG, it skips back and forth between 2 levels every 2mins or so.

Any help would be great.

Cheers

EsaT · 16 Feb 2018 at 10:56

Have you tried with other games or any other sound source like watching some movie?

If that doesn't change things then next thing would be disabling that Razer Surround.
And that Astro MixAmp already has Dolby Headphone so there wouldn't be need for Razer's software.

Axekickjack · 16 Feb 2018 at 11:15

To be fair no, I've not tired other games or a movie. Was a quick set up last night and noticed the issue. Ill check that tonight.

Yeah if i disable the Razer Surround or change my default audio device to the optical port, it stops, I'ts definitely the razer software. The sound using razer, in my opinion, sounds better than the mixamp dolby. Voice audio on twitch sounds very echoey with the mixamp dolby option on.

What would you say is going to be my best set up here then? Uninstall razer, reinstall realtek and use the dolby surround on the mixamp?

Marsman · 16 Feb 2018 at 13:59

Dolby Headphone does have an echo sound to it. Creative's SBX fares better, but the you'd have to ditch the Mixamp and buy a Creative sound card to get access to it. Not sure how Razer's software fares against those; not really looked at the comparison videos.

In any case; if the motherboard does not output Dolby Digital (which is likely if it doesn't have Dolby Digital Live), then surely you're not getting 5.1 to the Mixamp and headset, which will affect how well it works. Possibly just a pseudo 5.1 upmixed from stereo?

What motherboard do you have?

Axekickjack · 16 Feb 2018 at 15:00

Marsman said:
Dolby Headphone does have an echo sound to it. Creative's SBX fares better, but the you'd have to ditch the Mixamp and buy a Creative sound card to get access to it. Not sure how Razer's software fares against those; not really looked at the comparison videos.

In any case; if the motherboard does not output Dolby Digital (which is likely if it doesn't have Dolby Digital Live), then surely you're not getting 5.1 to the Mixamp and headset, which will affect how well it works. Possibly just a pseudo 5.1 upmixed from stereo?

What motherboard do you have?

In hindsight I would have not gone for the Mixamp Pro, brought a decent sound card and jobs a gooden. I've not spent a decent chunk of cash on the A40's and mixamp i kind of want to use them for now. (although i did buy these around 2 years ago)

I have a MSI X99S SLI Plus - https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/X99S-SLI-PLUS

Basically i just want to know how ill go about getting the best sound quality out of the Astro A40 headphone + Mixamp for FPS gaming.
I might think about getting a sound card in future as the A40 Mic is terrible through the mixamp so I've had to ditch that and get a standalone mic.

Marsman · 16 Feb 2018 at 16:42

That board doesn't have Dolby Digital Live, which isn't surprising really, as manufacturers tend to only include it with their premium end boards.

Mixamp is a good device, but it's more aimed at console use, because consoles have Dolby Digital (DD) output via optical. When it comes to PCs though, games for the most part don't have DD. It can be used with PC, it's just not quite as simple as connecting to any optical connection the PC might have and away you go.

Any optical connection on a motherboard or sound card in a PC is capable transmitting of DD, it's just that there's no DD stream to output. If you put in a DVD for example, then that will more than likely have a DD track that can be send via optical connection which external home theatre kit, or something like a Mixamp would then be able to decode as DD 5.1. Unless the games being played have DD included though, then you just don't get it.

That's where Dolby Digital Live (DDL) comes in. It's a real time 5.1 encoder, which takes the direct 5.1 audio and encodes it with DD, which can then be decoded as DD by whatever is on the other end of the optical cable; whether it be a home theatre system or a Mixamp. You either need a sound card or a motherboard which has it.

The reason for DD is so that 5.1 can be passed via optical. Without DD or DTS encoded audio stream, optical can only carry stereo. It's an 80s technology that was developed before 5.1 came about, but with encoded audio streams it can carry 5.1.

Dolby Headphone (DH), which the Mixamp uses to translate the 5.1 audio data that has been received from the DD stream, to the headset, can work if it's just receiving stereo. It's similar if you have a sound card with DH and set the output to stereo rather than 5.1. The DH still works, but not as well as it's creating a surround effect from just stereo. Without the Mixamp receiving a DD stream, then that's likely what's happening and why isn't not as good as it could be and why it's not performing as well as compared to the Razer software, which has no need for DD, etc.

DH still has an echo effect to it though, even if you're feeding it 5.1 audio.

Without using the Razer software instead, then to use the Mixamp to it's full potential, you'll really need a sound card with DDL. Best bet is probably a Creative Soundblaster Z OEM. The irony is that while you need such a sound card to provide DDL encoding, the same card also has SBX prostudio, which is Creative's alternative to DH and for gaming is arguably better. £50 sound card needed to get the most from the Mixamp, but also a £50 sound card that can also make the Mixamp redundant. :/

EsaT · 16 Feb 2018 at 18:26

Really disappointing for all the hype that MixAmp doesn't work as USB sound card.
I guess that would have cut too much into no doubt huge profit margin...

There are some hacks for enabling DD Live for Realtek, but that can also start bringing noticeable latency issue.

Marsman said:
Not sure how Razer's software fares against those; not really looked at the comparison videos.

Not well in videos I've found.
Razer Surround sounds as much like some fancy equalizer as binaural simulation and dosen't have clear sense of space:
https://youtu.be/d1_20T8x_OI?t=8m46s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE-NorSeH68
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDBSHNT5jWQ

Marsman said:
The irony is that while you need such a sound card to provide DDL encoding, the same card also has SBX prostudio, which is Creative's alternative to DH and for gaming is arguably better. £50 sound card needed to get the most from the Mixamp, but also a £50 sound card that can also make the Mixamp redundant. :/

Chances are good that already Audigy Fx would have better DAC and output than MixAmp...

Marsman · 16 Feb 2018 at 19:35

EsaT said:
There are some hacks for enabling DD Live for Realtek, but that can also start bringing noticeable latency issue.

There have been a couple or more threads of people providing a link on how to do get DDL enabled on motherboards it's not included with; but looking on the linked thread, it seemed to me that for some people this brought issues or no longer worked after updates, meaning newer cracked drivers were required. Not looked at that thread in a good while now, but the last time I did, I remember some people were waiting for new cracked drivers to get it working again. For the sake of what a sound card with DDL costs, using cracked Realtek drivers seems like a PitA.

Axekickjack · 17 Feb 2018 at 20:27

Marsman said:
That board doesn't have Dolby Digital Live, which isn't surprising really, as manufacturers tend to only include it with their premium end boards.

Mixamp is a good device, but it's more aimed at console use, because consoles have Dolby Digital (DD) output via optical. When it comes to PCs though, games for the most part don't have DD. It can be used with PC, it's just not quite as simple as connecting to any optical connection the PC might have and away you go.

Any optical connection on a motherboard or sound card in a PC is capable transmitting of DD, it's just that there's no DD stream to output. If you put in a DVD for example, then that will more than likely have a DD track that can be send via optical connection which external home theatre kit, or something like a Mixamp would then be able to decode as DD 5.1. Unless the games being played have DD included though, then you just don't get it.

That's where Dolby Digital Live (DDL) comes in. It's a real time 5.1 encoder, which takes the direct 5.1 audio and encodes it with DD, which can then be decoded as DD by whatever is on the other end of the optical cable; whether it be a home theatre system or a Mixamp. You either need a sound card or a motherboard which has it.

The reason for DD is so that 5.1 can be passed via optical. Without DD or DTS encoded audio stream, optical can only carry stereo. It's an 80s technology that was developed before 5.1 came about, but with encoded audio streams it can carry 5.1.

Dolby Headphone (DH), which the Mixamp uses to translate the 5.1 audio data that has been received from the DD stream, to the headset, can work if it's just receiving stereo. It's similar if you have a sound card with DH and set the output to stereo rather than 5.1. The DH still works, but not as well as it's creating a surround effect from just stereo. Without the Mixamp receiving a DD stream, then that's likely what's happening and why isn't not as good as it could be and why it's not performing as well as compared to the Razer software, which has no need for DD, etc.

DH still has an echo effect to it though, even if you're feeding it 5.1 audio.

Without using the Razer software instead, then to use the Mixamp to it's full potential, you'll really need a sound card with DDL. Best bet is probably a Creative Soundblaster Z OEM. The irony is that while you need such a sound card to provide DDL encoding, the same card also has SBX prostudio, which is Creative's alternative to DH and for gaming is arguably better. £50 sound card needed to get the most from the Mixamp, but also a £50 sound card that can also make the Mixamp redundant. :/

Ok thanks for that, big help. £50 to get the best sound out of my current set up is not a bad investment. Can aleays sell the mixamp too and get some of that back. I assume this card will be perfect for any future headphone/mic upgrades?

So if I go for that and ditch the mixamp id be connecting my a40s to it via the 3.5mm stero jack and use the creative software for the Dolby live surround experience. If I stick with the mixamp then its the optical ofcourse.

Axekickjack · 19 Feb 2018 at 22:03

Just purchased the Sound Blaster Z OEM, thanks again for the help.

I'll try with the mixamp first but when i try just the stereo jack i assume id need a splitter like this?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/UGREEN-Headphone-Microphone-Splitter-Headphones-Silver/dp/B00Y4663GG

roderz88 · 21 Feb 2018 at 02:15

If you're running Windows 10, why not try sonic spacial (thing thats what its called) or the dolby atmos app?

Axekickjack · 21 Feb 2018 at 08:55

roderz88 said:
If you're running Windows 10, why not try sonic spacial (thing thats what its called) or the dolby atmos app?

Spatial Sound, i did try that actually and it was pretty good, got a free trial of the dolby atmos app too. The soundcard will arrive today so i can only assume this will improve it further.
I'll give it a test tonight.