Anti-semitic is a bit of a push, no?

Soldato
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As to whether he's an anti semite.... Probably not in a big way other than i suspect that he thinks that prominent Jews are centrally involved in the capitalist system he hopes to dismantle.

Yeah its the system he is against, not the race of people. The two things may cross over somewhat in this case (although it would be another stereotype to say all Jews are affected by his policies - i assume all Jews aren't managing world finance). It doesnt make him antisemetic in my view.
 
Man of Honour
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Yeah its the system he is against, not the race of people. The two things may cross over somewhat in this case (although it would be another stereotype to say all Jews are affected by his policies - i assume all Jews aren't managing world finance). It doesnt make him antisemetic in my view.

It should be fairly obvious if people understand what Corbyn is about - he loves the institution of things - your post helps to highlight that.
 
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Isreal was initially created as a solution to the Jews being a homeless race wasnt it, after WW2?

Modern day Israel is the product of the Zionist movement which was attributed to Theodor Herzl. Independence from Britain (who obtained Palestine from the Ottomans during WW1) happened in 1948 and was immediately followed by the 1948 Palestine War.

So it's inaccurate to say Israel was created as a solution to the Jews being homeless. It was the result of a refugee crisis and much bloodshed after World War 2 combined with the growing Zionist ideology .. The Zionist movement caused an enormous number of Jewish refugees from all over the world to come to Israel. In fact, Britain basically had them put in concentration camps (not too dissimilar to those the Nazis used, except without arguably the brutality).

[edit] Just for accuracy, before the formation of the State of Israel, Britain twice proposed partitioning of Palestine:

The first proposal for the creation of Jewish and Arab states in the British Mandate of Palestine was made in the Peel Commission report of 1937, with the Mandate continuing to cover only a small area containing Jerusalem. The recommended partition proposal was rejected by the Arab community of Palestine, and was accepted by most of the Jewish leadership.

Partition was again proposed by the 1947 UN Partition plan for the division of Palestine. It proposed a three-way division, again with Jerusalem held separately, under international control. The partition plan was accepted by the Jewish leadership. However, the plan was rejected by the leadership of Arab nations and the Palestinian leadership, which opposed any partition of Palestine and any independent Jewish presence in the area. The 1948 Arab-Israeli War for control of the disputed land broke out on the end of the British Mandate, which came to an end with the 1949 Armistice Agreements. The war resulted in the fleeing or expulsion of 711,000 Palestinians, which the Palestinians call Nakba, from the territories which became the state of Israel

So, to this topic of Naz Shah saying the Israelis should move to the US. I wouldn't say it is anti-semitic (i.e., hating of the Jews) but more, trivialising a complex issue.
 
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Soldato
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Its also worth remembering that modern day isreal is also largely the result of a mass exodus of (under duress) and/or forced expulsion of Jews from surrounding majority Islamic States in the 1940's and -1950'.....

Some 850 thousand ....

Vs the estimated 700 thousand displaced Palestinians.

And not massively of the 1947 estimated Islamic population of what was then Palestine at just under 1.2 million...

And Isreal still maintains a significant presence of Muslims (about 20% of the population are Arabs with over 80% of thoose being sunni Muslims)..... The same can't be said for the 'Palestine' areas......

Strangely this often gets ignored when people talk about the Palestines being a disposed people. .....
 
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Man of Honour
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I think the most generous thing that can be said about Jeremy corbyn and antisemitism would be that he is subconsciously blind to it in a way that he isn't to other forms of racism.

It's really important to stick to the evidence, and his membership of social media groups know for anti semitism, his comments in defence of anti semitic images and his support for people know to hold anti semitic views is all a matter of public record that he doesn't deny, and he instead issues defences claiming that he was simply unaware of the antisemitism.

Now, even on that basis, its not a good look. There are other explanations (such as him consciously ignoring antisemitism for other agendas, or even the that he agrees with it but doesn't voice it.)

Of course, much like 'I'm not racist but...' there are plenty of people who, consciously or subconsciously hold antisemitic views that they justify to themselves in other ways, this thread shows a great many posters doing it, but we are discussing the leader of the opposition, a potential future prime minister, and therefore it has to be judged impartially.
 
Caporegime
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I think the most generous thing that can be said about Jeremy corbyn and antisemitism would be that he is subconsciously blind to it in a way that he isn't to other forms of racism.

It's really important to stick to the evidence, and his membership of social media groups know for anti semitism, his comments in defence of anti semitic images and his support for people know to hold anti semitic views is all a matter of public record that he doesn't deny, and he instead issues defences claiming that he was simply unaware of the antisemitism.

Now, even on that basis, its not a good look. There are other explanations (such as him consciously ignoring antisemitism for other agendas, or even the that he agrees with it but doesn't voice it.)

Of course, much like 'I'm not racist but...' there are plenty of people who, consciously or subconsciously hold antisemitic views that they justify to themselves in other ways, this thread shows a great many posters doing it, but we are discussing the leader of the opposition, a potential future prime minister, and therefore it has to be judged impartially.

Describe those "views", i doubt it will be what i think it actually means (conflation with Israeli geopolitics, which is a fantastic maneuver to be fair), but still.

I must also say that the huge wealthy Israeli lobby that seems to pervade British and American politics, is doing them no favors when it comes to that casually racist joke that is usually banded around, as considering all the bluster lately about political unfairness... it might be time to reign the lobbying in.
 
Don
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Similar to my comments on Corbyn in the spy poison thread, I think this just highlights how nieve he is on a wide range of subjects where his socialist view point clouds his judgement on matters.
 
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I would ask why there are no black or Asian men/women sitting at the table. Clearly choosing one gender, age and race to depict powerful and exploitative elites show that the artist is pushing an agenda.
 
Caporegime
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Yes, but the OP was asking how this was racist towards Jews, well, the ethnicity of the 'evil people' is a unifying feature and some have exaggerated characteristics associated with Jews (large noses). Therefore, it is quite easy to see why this mural is racist.

But that's not what people are saying. They're specifically saying it's anti-Semitic. Ignoring the other people there. Which you're not. It's what I tried to point our earlier. I'm now a racist antisemite however.
 
Soldato
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Interestingly, the issue of Corbyn’s support for the mural – or at least the artist – originally flared in late 2015, when the Jewish Chronicle unearthed his Facebook post. Two things were noticeably different about the coverage then.

First, on that occasion, no one apart from the Jewish Chronicle appeared to show much interest in the issue. Its “scoop” was not followed up by the rest of the media. What is now supposedly a major scandal, one that raises questions about Corbyn’s fitness to be Labour leader, was a non-issue two years ago, when it first became known.

Second, the Jewish Chronicle, usually so ready to get exercised at the smallest possible sign of anti-semitism, wasn’t entirely convinced back in 2015 that the mural was anti-semitic. In fact, it suggested only that the mural might have “antisemitic undertones” – and attributed even that claim to Corbyn’s critics.

And rather than claiming, as the entire corporate media is now, that the mural depicted a cabal of Jewish bankers, the Chronicle then described the scene as “a group of businessmen and bankers sitting around a Monopoly-style board and counting money”. By contrast, the Guardian abandoned normal reporting conventions yesterday to state in its news – rather than comment – pages unequivocally that the mural was “obviously antisemitic”.

https://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2018-03-26/the-sharks-circling-around-corbyn-scent-blood/
 
Soldato
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Its just one thing after another, this was the straw that broke the back as it were. In recent weeks it was being a member of some FB groups that had some anti semitic view now today is some mural . Along with various members making various comments it just doesnt look good if you are the bloke in charge and doing what he did in the EU referendum which was pretty much ignore it and sitting tight. Oddly he apologised for pockets of anti semitism in the party after Chakra whojimiflips report reported no evidence of not long ago
 
Soldato
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if you had not read reddit too this ... seemed to sum it up
Well.... that they look nothing like the smoothly shaved, shiny faced and athletically fit stereotypes of today's bankers and everything like the caricatures of 1920s and 1930s bankers that were often used in propaganda of the time (both by fascists and communist groups) with very overt anti-semitic tones is definitely not...deliberate. Why would you paint a bunch of old men dressed in pre-WWII fashion and many who have sizeable noses..
...
"The work reeked of fascism. Oppression was represented by grinding cogs that might have been painted by an Italian futurist circa 1920. The bankers did not have today’s gym-toned bodies and Armani suits. They were hideous old men in stiff collars no financier has worn since the 1930s. Ockerman called his effort ‘freedom for humanity,’ and you did not need acute perception to gather who humanity needed to be free of.

Apart from Ockerman, no one in 2012 tried to pretend that this was anything other than racist art. Even Lutfur Rahman, the then Muslim mayor of Tower Hamlets said it ‘perpetuated anti-Semitic propaganda about conspiratorial Jewish domination of financial and political institutions’. No one, that is, apart from Jeremy Corbyn, who protested against the mural’s destruction, and compared its shabby creator to the great Diego Rivera."
 
Caporegime
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I have no doubt there are people with anti-semitic views that inhabit the left of politics, but this latest display of objection to it has managed to attract an awful lot of people who have absolutely no interest in discussing the issue in anything approaching good faith. Which is unfortunate for actually making any progress on the topic.
 
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