AIO vs Air vs Custom cooling at a budget ?

doyll · 25 Apr 2018 at 16:40

2013 said:
So the real difference is just the fans ?

Also how do the PH-TC14PE and PH-TC14S compare ?

Thanks

PH-TC14S is not great. It's not designed to cool high TDP load.

Original PH-TC14PE are very good. They had 2-piece fins soldered to heatpipe and Phanteks changed that to 1-piece fins a few years ago and never publically told us of this change. When I questioned it after someone got one of the 1-piece finned PH-TC14PE and asked me if it was counterfiet I asked my rep who had to ask head office who told him they had changed to 1-piece fins and change did not effect cooling. I have not tested nor have I seen any testing of new 1-pice finned PH-TC14PE so can only assume Phanteks is correct .. something I don't like to do and why I'm telling you about the change.

Short answer, I think the PH-TC14PE is still a good cooler.

Air cooler warranty are really rather worthless. Air cooler don't wear out .. at least not in our lifetimes. The only thing that will wear out is the fan/s and if they work like they should when new they will last many years. I have original PH-F140SP in my Enthoo Primo from original release and they sound like they did when new. I have even older Thermalright TY-140 fans easily 7 years old in another case still working like new (knock on wood).

Yes, fans make a big difference in cooler performance. Basically the higher the airflow the better the cooling .. as long as case can supply as much cool air as cooler fans use.

2013 · 25 Apr 2018 at 16:49

Thanks,

I was only looking at water cooling warranty with cheap locked in parts most would not last long but if they are offering long warranty like the cryorig it would have a reason to do so.

doyll · 25 Apr 2018 at 16:54

2013 said:
Thanks,

I was only looking at water cooling warranty with cheap locked in parts most would not last long but if they are offering long warranty like the cryorig it would have a reason to do so.

Yeah, with CLCs warranty can make a difference. I don't think many CLC owners bother using their warranty when their CLC dies after 2-3 years .. and of course their companies bank on that fact, so for the rare few long term warranties they need to honor it worth the PR to do it because many buyers look at length of warranty as life of product.

Ross Thomson · 25 Apr 2018 at 18:44

doyll said:
Yeah, with CLCs warranty can make a difference. I don't think many CLC owners bother using their warranty when their CLC dies after 2-3 years .. and of course their companies bank on that fact, so for the rare few long term warranties they need to honor it worth the PR to do it because many buyers look at length of warranty as life of product.

if they die

doyll · 25 Apr 2018 at 18:52

Ross Thomson said:
if they die

That they doe when worked with higher coolant temps .. more often then we see posted in forums, Facebook, etc.

The ones that last are the ones on CPUs not making much heat so coolant just gets warm.

Ross Thomson · 25 Apr 2018 at 20:08

doyll said:
That they doe when worked with higher coolant temps .. more often then we see posted in forums, Facebook, etc.

The ones that last are the ones on CPUs not making much heat so coolant just gets warm.

not an issue if he is on ryzen then is it

doyll · 25 Apr 2018 at 20:14

Ross Thomson said:
not an issue if he is on ryzen then is it

Depends on what temps his Ryzen would would be running at.

2013 · 25 Apr 2018 at 20:42

doyll said:
The river website has Thermalright. Can't say any more because OcUK doesn't like us telling prices elsewhere.

Do you mean the forest or the river ?

Ross Thomson · 25 Apr 2018 at 20:45

doyll said:
Depends on what temps his Ryzen would would be running at.

Doesn’t run hot at all eve. At 1.4v and less so on the series 2.

doyll · 25 Apr 2018 at 21:30

2013 said:
Do you mean the forest or the river ?

Both in a basin

EsaT · 25 Apr 2018 at 21:37

doyll said:
PH-TC14S is not great. It's not designed to cool high TDP load.

Oh dear god...
TC14S has smaller surface area than whole lots of single tower heatsinks!
http://www.phanteks.com/images/product/PH-TC14S/PH-TC14S-2z.jpg
That's pretty much made for PR BS hype of having dual towers...
Basically would expect best 120mm heatsinks to beat it while not having fan protruding near uppermost PCI-slot.

doyll · 26 Apr 2018 at 00:21

EsaT said:
Oh dear god...
TC14S has smaller surface area than whole lots of single tower heatsinks!
http://www.phanteks.com/images/product/PH-TC14S/PH-TC14S-2z.jpg
That's pretty much made for PR BS hype of having dual towers...
Basically would expect best 120mm heatsinks to beat it while not having fan protruding near uppermost PCI-slot.

Wow!

Actually it does about 10c better than Evo 212 on high TDP CPU, so definitely not as mediocre as as Evo 212

2013 · 15 May 2018 at 03:38

doyll said:
Asus Sabertooth 990FX has 6x PCIe with one nearest CPU missing so any of the big coolers will fit.
Gigabyte AMD X470 Aorus also has plenty of room.

Any cooler will fit as long as RAM is not too tall.

Enthoo Primo has 30mm more CPU clearance (207mm) than tallest cooler I know of and all kinds of airflow so no problems there.

Before suggesting coolers I'll tell you I always do a practice install on any cooler I'm not familiar with. It only takes a few minutes and usually saves lots of anger and frustration .. not to mention TIM ending up where it shouldn't be and/or a bad TIM print. I also use kitchen paper towel cut into 5cm squares and isopropl alcohol for cleaning. I wipe what I can get without problems onto a piece of towel and put it in the bin before the TIM can jump onto anything else. I swear there are TIM jumping gremlins.

Probably the best out are Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT and NH-D15. Le Grand Macho RT is ever so slightly better at cooling and noise levels. It will clear tall RAM in front of CPU, but not behind. Also a little harder to install mostly because it tips over backwards if not held in place and mounting crossbar is not fixed to base and can move. Best to have a 3rd hand to hold cooler in place while installing cross bar and tightening, but I do it all the time solo.

The best lower priced which is within 2-3c with one fan is TRUE Spirit 140 Power. It has 6x 8mm heatpipes. It is maybe 2c warmer with 1300rpm fan than D15, but D15 has 1500rpm fans, and that is worth at least 2c. |It clears RAM front and back of CPU

Cryorig R1 Ultimate and Universal are very good too, but I don't like their fan sound as well as TY-1xx series fan. The Universal clears all RAM and has base offset 5mm more back than Ultimate and also a 14mm thick front fan instad of normal 25-26mm front fan.

Noctua NH-D15 is good but usually more expensive than others. While cooler will clear tall RAM front fan still has to be set on the RAM so ends up looking too high.
D15S has offset base for better PCIe clearance.
NH-U14S is also good, but almost as big a TRUE Spirit 140 Power, costs more and doesn't cool any better than TS140P.

Phanteks PH-TC14PE is good too. The original had 2 piece soldered to heatpipes but they changed a year or so ago to 1 piece fins with no public announcement of change. Only way I found out was someone bought one and asked me if it was a counterfeit or real. I had to ask Phanteks rep who had to ask headquarters because he hadn't been told about change either. I tried to get one of the new ones to run comparison tests but Phanteks told me they cooled the same .. and I have seen no reviews that reviewer had newer one piece fin cooler, so no independent verification.

be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 3 and new Dark Rock Pro 4 are good and quiet, but not any better (2-3c warmer but very quiet) than others but look great.

The river website has Thermalright. Can't say any more because OcUK doesn't like us telling prices elsewhere.

I've not started my new build so I've been just been looking but the prices for a good air cooler are not far off from water.

The biggest issues i've been having.
1. AM4 support, you still need to by the brackets for some models or get a am4 only block.

2. The other issue I've had is with thermalright only one store in the UK seam to sell them for some reason, the prices and delivery is a bit all over.

I did take look at the Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT but delivery was a bit to high, i assume it was getting shipped.

I did have some question on the thermalright models
1. whats the difference between the direct and the non direct models ?
2. would i need to buy the AM4 brackets if so how ?
3. what is the diffidence between Le Grand Macho and Macho rev B.

I think it will really be down to u12s - u14s and true 140 all are around the same price and im assuming i would need to buy support brackets for all

doyll · 15 May 2018 at 11:34

2013 said:
I've not started my new build so I've been just been looking but the prices for a good air cooler are not far off from water.

The biggest issues i've been having.
1. AM4 support, you still need to by the brackets for some models or get a am4 only block.

2. The other issue I've had is with thermalright only one store in the UK seam to sell them for some reason, the prices and delivery is a bit all over.

I did take look at the Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT but delivery was a bit to high, i assume it was getting shipped.

I did have some question on the thermalright models
1. whats the difference between the direct and the non direct models ?
2. would i need to buy the AM4 brackets if so how ?
3. what is the diffidence between Le Grand Macho and Macho rev B.

I think it will really be down to u12s - u14s and true 140 all are around the same price and im assuming i would need to buy support brackets for all

There is no Thermalright dealer in UK, but a few EU companies sell here. Sometimes with extra shipping and sometimes included. TRUE Spirit 140 Power is available with no added shipping charge.

1. Direct coolers have direct contact heatpipes you can see on the bottom of base. Others have heatpipes inside of base block.

2. All coolers manufactured after 1 Jan 2017 have AM4 mounts. If in doubt, look at the instruction manual or ask the seller.

3. Macho rev.B is 140x162x101mm (WxHxD) with 6x 6mm heatpipes rated 240w TDP and Le Grand Macho RT is 150x124.5x159mm with 7x 6mm heatpipes rated 320w TDP.

NH-U12S (125x71x158mm w/ 5x 6mm pipes) is not as good as NH-U14S (150x165x75mm 2/ 6x 6mm pipes) and I think TRUE Spirit 140 Power is better (155x79x171.2mm w/ 6x 8mm heatpipes. Only reason U14S scores a degree or two lower temps is NF-A15 is 1500rpm and TY-147A is 1300rpm. NF-A15 and TY-147A perform the same at same RPM NF-A15 even looks the same. TS140P is similar price to U12S and a few quid lower priced than U14S.

Another very good cooler is Archon IB-E (155x79x165.2mm w/ 8x 6mm pipes) and 2x TY-141A fans .. but it usually cost a little more.

2013 · 15 May 2018 at 14:55

doyll said:
There is no Thermalright dealer in UK, but a few EU companies sell here. Sometimes with extra shipping and sometimes included. TRUE Spirit 140 Power is available with no added shipping charge.

1. Direct coolers have direct contact heatpipes you can see on the bottom of base. Others have heatpipes inside of base block.

2. All coolers manufactured after 1 Jan 2017 have AM4 mounts. If in doubt, look at the instruction manual or ask the seller.

3. Macho rev.B is 140x162x101mm (WxHxD) with 6x 6mm heatpipes rated 240w TDP and Le Grand Macho RT is 150x124.5x159mm with 7x 6mm heatpipes rated 320w TDP.

NH-U12S (125x71x158mm w/ 5x 6mm pipes) is not as good as NH-U14S (150x165x75mm 2/ 6x 6mm pipes) and I think TRUE Spirit 140 Power is better (155x79x171.2mm w/ 6x 8mm heatpipes. Only reason U14S scores a degree or two lower temps is NF-A15 is 1500rpm and TY-147A is 1300rpm. NF-A15 and TY-147A perform the same at same RPM NF-A15 even looks the same. TS140P is similar price to U12S and a few quid lower priced than U14S.

Another very good cooler is Archon IB-E (155x79x165.2mm w/ 8x 6mm pipes) and 2x TY-141A fans .. but it usually cost a little more.

1. Are both direct and non direct models the same temps ?

2. I was thinking of the thermalright but its a pain getting one,

3. It will all come down to price for me.

doyll · 15 May 2018 at 15:46

2013 said:
1. Are both direct and non direct models the same temps ?

2. I was thinking of the thermalright but its a pain getting one,

3. It will all come down to price for me.

1. Most direct contact coolers are not as big or as well built as solid copper base coolers, so as a general rule they are not as good, but more of a lower cost alternative that is almost as good. But it's not a black and white rule. Sorry, but it is what it is.

2. While not as easy to find as some others it's not really hard to find Thermalright products.

3. Yeah, price is often the key.