Poll: Spanish Grand Prix 2018, Barcelona - Race 5/21

[steve45]

Am I mistaken or are cars 2 seconds quicker then last year, can't remember what weather was like but don't think it was wet was it?

track was resurfaced and the tyres are a compound softer i'm sure they said.

 

[this_is_gav]

Yeah the whole back of the Toro Rosso just fell off. Never seen that after an accident.

To be honest it would have been a heck of a job to get it out for qualifying anyway. There was clearly a lot of damage beyond the gearbox for it to sever from the engine like that, so it would have been a major job anyway.

 

[Mr Jack]

Holy crap! that was some impact, cant see how they could rebuild that for qualy, never seen a rear end collapse like that!

Not been watching. Who are you talking about?

 

[steve45]

Hartley, dipped a tyre on the grass flat out at turn 9, swapped ends and demolished the rear of the car on the barrier, he looked to be alright, up and walking fine, but has been taken to med centre.

 

[Mr Jack]

Hartley, dipped a tyre on the grass flat out at turn 9, swapped ends and demolished the rear of the car on the barrier, he looked to be alright, up and walking fine, but has been taken to med centre.

Yikes.

 

[Irish_Tom]

Thanks as always @Shimmy

Toto said at the end of the last race that it was hard to tell what the Ferrari’s pace was going to be like here.

He said that in pre-season testing the Merc was faster but only because the Ferrari’s were struggling in the corners. He said that since then, they appeared to have corrected the issue so it was going to be close.

Based on the free practice sessions it looks like this could well be one for Mercedes (although we won’t really know until the end of Q3).

 

[Kerazee]

So Ferrari wing mirror design is illegal:

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12...rraris-halo-mounted-mirrors-banned-for-monaco

But they can continue to run it for this weekend????? Can a race result stand with an illegal car???

I understand the difficulty they removing them for this race but how can you be allowed to run an illegal car in the race?? Will they allow the result to stand? May as well bring an illegal car to every race then, just change the illegal bits for the next race.

 

[Greboth]

So Ferrari wing mirror design is illegal:

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12...rraris-halo-mounted-mirrors-banned-for-monaco

But they can continue to run it for this weekend????? Can a race result stand with an illegal car???

I understand the difficulty they removing them for this race but how can you be allowed to run an illegal car in the race?? Will they allow the result to stand? May as well bring an illegal car to every race then, just change the illegal bits for the next race.

The article doesn't explain it but it wouldn't surprise me to find out that the FIA changed the rules after China, Ferrari jumped on it coming up with a design that the FIA didn't expect (or want) and the FIA have clarified the rules for the next race.

 

[Kerazee]

May it is just Sky mis representing the the situation, but the first paragraph states;

the FIA ruled that the new design was illegal.

But reading it again you are most likely correct and rather than being illegal are more not in the spirit of the rules

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Mercedes have the advantage in practice, wonder if they can carry that over to quali.

 

[steve45]

I've been reading other reports, Benson (...yeah i know!), that state that the situation will be reviewed by FIA after the race. There are apparently concerns from other teams that what ferrari have done may be a bit of a stretch on the original clarification from FIA, and thus could spark an aero war in that region of the car.


*further reading elsewhere seems to suggest that its the winglets above supporting the mirror and not the mirrors themselves that are the issue, and will need to be removed for Monaco. I dunno I guess we'll see when the car rolls out the pits in Monaco!

 

[CaptainRAVE]

The mirror positioning I get. I don’t get where in the new rule they thought they could put a winglet on top.

 

[Mr Jack]

But they can continue to run it for this weekend????? Can a race result stand with an illegal car???

I understand the difficulty they removing them for this race but how can you be allowed to run an illegal car in the race?? Will they allow the result to stand? May as well bring an illegal car to every race then, just change the illegal bits for the next race.

The rules are so ambiguous that what precisely is or isn't legal is rarely defined until after the fact. The FIA has moved to a model of making rulings and then giving the teams time to comply rather than the old system of protests after the race throwing the race results into doubt. Teams that break the rules more egregiously during the race are still punished.

 

[Mr Jack]

The mirror positioning I get. I don’t get where in the new rule they thought they could put a winglet on top.

The rule probably specifies a region above/below the centreline they can use. Ferrari took advantage to add a winglet. Clever. (Also, if you look closely at the design, the winglet is also a support structure for the mirror).

 

[Mr Jack]

So, looking up the rules, it appears that a winglet there would not be allowed, except that in article 3.4.2 it says

With the exception of a transparent windscreen, antennae, pitot tubes, the mirrors described in Article 3.5.2 (including their housings and mountings) and the high speed camera defined in Article 8.8.6, no bodywork situated between the planes A-A and a plane parallel to and 380mm forward of the plane C-C may lie more than 625mm above the reference plane.​

So this comes down to "..housing and mounting" (from the bit I bolded in the above). Ferrari are hanging the mirror from the winglet to give support to the outer edge of the mirror and stop it wobbling and so will argue that it is "mounting" for the mirror, that's allowed provided it meets this confusingly worded set of restrictions (from 3.5.2)

Other than the rear view mirrors (including their housings and mountings), each with a maximum area of 20000mm² and 14000 mm² when viewed from directly above or directly from the side respectively, no bodywork situated more than 330mm behind the front wheel centre line and more than 330mm forward of the rear wheel centre line, which is more than 600mm above the reference plane, may be more than 350mm from the car centre plane.​

where I think(?) only the bolded bit applies to the mirror size. Because the mirrors are fairly narrow from the side, and the winglet sits directly above the mirror from above I guess it meets these requirements.

 

[this_is_gav]

I think it's been banned for cost reasons as much as anything (as in all the other teams would spend a fortune researching it) so the common sense thing is just ban it beforehand as it's not needed.

It's not illegal though as far as I'm aware. All the cars are scrutineered before FP1 and it was declared fine then, so I can't imagine much has changed since.

 

[Bazzards]

Surely they could have made their lives easier by just stating that nothing could be attached to the halo.?

 

[Flibster]

Surely they could have made their lives easier by just stating that nothing could be attached to the halo.?

The no aerodynamic devices further than 20 mm from it rule?
It allows the little fairings, but this comes from the wing mount, oddly, the point of most stress in that setup isn't supported so the mirror will still wobble as it's only mounted at at a single point.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Ferrari are definitely having to push more than Mercedes at the moment.

 

[Flibster]

Stroll once again sticks it in the gravel.

The car isn't good, but the drivers are not making the best of it.

Oooh, the advertising hoarding that was thumped broke the camera lens filter too.