Gypsy hoarde ransack brewery, police just let them do it

Soldato
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Heavy loads, toxic chemicals, rotating machinery, hot machinery, forklifts cranes they have all the risks of most major industrial sites.


And why exactly would it mean the whole police force would have to attend?
Surely jsut. handful of officers could move these peaceful folk on.

If not then these people are dangerous and pose and immediate threat to public safety if they will jist violently attack police on sight and should be an even higher priority.


If have thought a large number of children being forced into crime so activity and exposed to harm would rank above a domestic wouldn't you?


You are going to send a 'handful' of officers to 'deal' with a 100+ travellers by 'moving them on'?


Get real..... you would need to deploy a very large number of officers and tie them all up for hours to deal with an incident like this at the time...

Multiple arrests, children taken into police protection because the adults have been arrested, police assigned to stay at the scene to secure it in the interim, loads of vehicles and drivers required to transport prisoners, loads of places required in custody suites for thoose arrested, loads of CID diverted to deal with the 10's of prisoners in custody (who generally have to be dealt with within 24 hours of arrival at a police station) , many of whom may need appropriate adult due to their age or other issues.. ..


Lancashire only has 2,800 police officers (exc specials) total across the whole force only a small proportion of which will be available to respond to emergency calls on any given shift

(for a 24/7 shift coverage including leave, rest days etc at best you have 1/5 of your workforce available..... You also have all the police who are in specialist/non front line roles like anti terroism, child sexual exploitation, sexual offences units etc)
 
Soldato
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I don't think it's a case of 'police sitting on their hands' .....

More likely that they was considerably less police available to immediately respond in the whole local area vs the amount of people involved in the incident... .

and as there was no risk to life from. This incident but diverting all your resources to deal with this incident would cause risk to life the decision was made to not respond at the time.....

If you are going to respond, at the time, you need to send sufficient resources..... A couple of cops in a car or even a whole mini bus worth won't be enough to deal with the amount of people apparently involved

So basically all we need to do to get free stuff is gather 100 people and ransack a shopping mall? No one's in danger so the police will sit by and watch..
 
Soldato
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So basically all we need to do to get free stuff is gather 100 people and ransack a shopping mall? No one's in danger so the police will sit by and watch..

The 2011 `retail` riots showed the problems of dealing with large amounts of people involved in mass theft....

The police to an extent had to sit back and watch there.... But plenty of people were arrested and convicted afterwards.
 
Soldato
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The 2011 `retail` riots showed the problems of dealing with large amounts of people involved in mass theft....

The police to an extent had to sit back and watch there.... But plenty of people were arrested and convicted afterwards.

Yea only because they posted about it on social media, with photos bragging about it I bet :p
 
Caporegime
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The 2011 `retail` riots showed the problems of dealing with large amounts of people involved in mass theft....

The police to an extent had to sit back and watch there.... But plenty of people were arrested and convicted afterwards.
The Gypos are perfectly safe/immune so long as they stick together and go back to their communes.

There are tons of articles of police flat out refusing to recover stolen property because they know exactly where it is and who has it - the gypos have it in one of their communes. This extends to vehicles and caravans. Police meekly saying they "can't" recover it because of the risk, etc.

They're also a protected minority.

So basically violent + safety in numbers + protected minority = above the law.
 
Soldato
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So basically all we need to do to get free stuff is gather 100 people and ransack a shopping mall? No one's in danger so the police will sit by and watch..


Its worse than that,

Consider this,

https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/local-news/new-hampshire-base-vandalised-police-4823492

This hasn't just happened once either (See story)

The account that I got from somebody closer to the scene was that on at least one occasion the Police were sitting in their hut on the airfield,

A SUV full of "peaceful law abiding travelers" rolled up armed with bats. when the Police came out to see what was going on, the Gypos told them to get back inside.

So they did as they were told and waited there while the ****** trashed the chopper.
 
Soldato
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The Gypos are perfectly safe/immune so long as they stick together and go back to their communes.

There are tons of articles of police flat out refusing to recover stolen property because they know exactly where it is and who has it - the gypos have it in one of their communes. This extends to vehicles and caravans. Police meekly saying they "can't" recover it because of the risk, etc.

They're also a protected minority.

So basically violent + safety in numbers + protected minority = above the law.

Plenty of rank and file police officers would love to go after certain groups en mass and with a high degree of vigour...

However as allude to such actions would be fraught with issues. You want the police to 'robustly' deal with such people? Then expect to see some pretty harsh looking photos and video of women men and children being violently detained and restrained.

Expect lots of handwringing and accusations of racism etc from the usual suspects.. .


Expect having lots of issues defending such policies in the courts.....

Expect the high likelihood that police acting as they would need to would run a very high risk or people being seriously injured or killed.
 
Soldato
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Basically, we are policed by consent and the Travellers don't give their consent....and the police don't have the numbers, resources or back up in the legal system to just "deal with it"

So basically all we need to do to get free stuff is gather 100 people and ransack a shopping mall? No one's in danger so the police will sit by and watch..

Basically yes, but as pointed out, plenty of those 100 will be arrested after the event (by CCTV, social media, informants etc) there's not a lot the police could do to stop it happening at the time.
 
Soldato
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So basically, because these people move around in large gangs they can do what they like and the police will do nothing to stop them. Thats whats happening.

I agree - it's totally ridiculous, but having seen it happen first hand several times, it's a little more complicated.

The gypos know exactly how to move around, when and where to go, for example - they'll usually turn up and fill a field or carpark full of caravans in the dead of night - 1am or so, then "dig in". Anybody who goes near that camp, whether it's the land owner or a policeman, will be threatened, intimidated and probably pelted with faeces, nappies, bottles of urine... Basically nobody is getting near that place.

AFAIK, there isn't any other group in society that behaves like that, 100 or so regular people (like football supporters, or protestors or whatever) would be far easier to know of in advance due to intelligence, with gypos - they just appear from nowhere in the middle of the night... One time I went to bed, woke up in the morning and the field outside our house had about 150+ carvans in it, nobody had a damn clue about they were coming - even the farmer who had a whole field full of corn wrecked.
 
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Strange how southern Ireland has effectively addressed this issue with no extra police being recruited, no army intervention and no bloodshed, just a change in the Statute to make trespass much simpler, easier and faster to prosecute, and make eviction almost instant. A quick Google search will show the massive resources of time and tax payer's money given over to travellers so called needs, support groups, committees, their rights as minority ethnic groups, their health needs, their legal representation, their education, their mental health, their terminal health care, their housing needs, blah blah. There's very little to suggest that their often flagrant abuse of people's land and property, and their oft reported criminality is being addressed with any meaningful rigour or vigour though. What exactly does the tax payer get back from all this spending apart from grief and hassle?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/9...s-police-local-authorities-unauthorised-sites

Not much seems to have occurred since this article, Raab seems to have blathered about the matter, but not been at all efficacious in following up his cheap words.

Most local authorities and councils have zero staff on call at Bank holidays and even weekends, and by the time they have lethargically come back to work another encampment has been set up and even Tarmacadam laid and the land drained. They have the powers to do far more, far more quickly, but are reluctant to use these powers for the same reason other easily identified groups of criminality go unchallenged for years or decades, our blind embracement of so called political correctness by those who fear for their future job prospects and take the easy way out by turning a blind eye and very deaf ears.
 
Soldato
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Basically yes, but as pointed out, plenty of those 100 will be arrested after the event (by CCTV, social media, informants etc) there's not a lot the police could do to stop it happening at the time.

Yea right, they will probably never find them now.

Even without tip-offs regarding football hooligans or protesters the police are right there to deal with it in large numbers (including for peaceful protesters). Why is a bunch of gypsies traveling around the country leaving a trail of destruction such an issue?
 
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Soldato
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Yea right, they will probably never find them now.

They don't seem to have any problems dealing with football hooligans or protesters (inc. peaceful ones, they will still send plenty of police). Why is a bunch of gypsies such an issue?

I wasn't talking about the Gypsies, I was talking about the hypothetical scenario of you and 99 friends going to sack the shopping mall. The police wouldn't stop you either but get you afterwards.

As you point out though, they can't do that either with the Gypsies. The reason for that and why football hooligans are treated differently is explained in Screeechs post above.
 
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Caporegime
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Nothing to stop anyone making a citizen's arrest if they are feeling brave. You may even find a moment of fame like this guy, when a photograph looking like it's from an opening scene from The Sweeney was snapped of him tackling an aggressive beggar.

https://metro.co.uk/2018/06/02/man-carried-cool-citizens-arrest-doesnt-drop-cigarette-7600467/

Is this the coolest man in London?

A man wearing a leather jacket made a citizen’s arrest in Borough Market and he didn’t even drop his cigarette as he did so.

Incredible skills, eh?

Captured by photographer Nick MacMahon on Thursday afternoon, the man can be seen pinning another man to the ground while smoking his cigarette as he looks into the distance.

According to the Independent the man on the floor, who had hassled people for money earlier on, was ‘trying to start fights with people’.


The arm lock looks decent, I';m betting he has had training (whether official or self-defense lessons in a martial art school etc.)

But a big difference 2 poeple taking on 1 drunk person vs 100 armed gypsies.
 
Soldato
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What's stopping a group leader having 200/300/400 people behind him and pretty much doing what they like, they could even run it like Nazi Germany where there isn't just one Sargent (dont take my word for that) so arresting one of them wouldn't stop the group movement.

A reactive police force is pushing up crime, there was less crime back in the day and less police because they weren't reactive, policing today is flawed and ignoring crime is just crazy.. where is this country heading ?
 
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Soldato
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What's stopping a group leader having 200/300/400 people behind him and pretty much doing what they like, they could even run it like Nazi Germany where there isn't just one Sargent (dont take my word for that) so arresting one of them wouldn't stop the group movement.

A reactive police force is pushing up crime, there was less crime back in the day and less police because they weren't reactive, policing today is flowed and ignoring crime is just crazy.. where is this country heading ?

What's stopping that is the large police response that would likely follow after the initial incident... Like with the London riots..... Lots of people were arrested and imprisoned for what would have otherwise been disproportionate periods of time (like six months for stealing a bottle of water).

Any 'travellers' who are involved in crime generally keep any criminality at levels where such a response is hard to justify

If a group of travellers did manage to cause as much trouble as the 2011 riots caused on their own the response would be far greater then with this incidental so far.
 
Soldato
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If a group of travellers did manage to cause as much trouble as the 2011 riots caused on their own the response would be far greater then with this incidental so far.
I'd hope so regarding the travelling community but at the same time the stats are showing a reactive police force is allowing crime to go up.
 
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Caporegime
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They could subdue them and leave them hogtied face down in the dirt for a couple of hours until the police can process them. Not to mention taking a few photos and videos for the purpose of humiliation.
If the army aren't prepared to use lethal force, then how does that work?

Israel can subdue vast crowds with their armed forces, and I suspect they do try to use non-lethal force most of the time, but they also are 100% prepared to shoot to kill. The situation in Ireland I guess was the same. People were killed.

If you send in the UK forces and expect a completely non-lethal approach to be successful, I can see problems. Injuries to the armed forces themselves, and potential outright failure to subdue the gypos. I mean you can use tear gas and water cannons but is that enough? Is it even safe for the armed forces to attempt a non-lethal approach? The risk to them would be v high. Suspect gypos are no strangers to molotov cocktails or whatever improvised weapons they could get their hands on.

With a group that's prepared to fight and die for their own, I think you pretty much have to be prepared for casualties, and the authorised use of lethal force.

So by all means send in the army, with live rounds. But the headlines (as another poster mentioned) aren't going to be a happy place. That's fine, I say. **** the happy clappy "think of their children's human rights" nonsense. Send a strong message that such depraved behaviour is not something you can get away with in the UK.
 
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