Man of Honour
Perfect for robbing grannies.
Images of items I have purchased (except trainers)
- Thread starter Zefan
- Start date
Soldato
I honestly don't buy this personally IMO. What exactly does extra power mean? More wattage? A speaker will only use what you tell it to use. At the desktop distance that I use it, my ears are bleeding after probably 15W max. All that will happen with an amp with more wattage is I'll use less of the power and the volume slider will go lower (I max out the PMA-60 at just below 50% for normal usage). I can't magically use that 200W of power because 85% of it will go wasted unless I'm in a huge room and listening from quite the distance.
Perhaps what you mean is the quality of the power supply to handle drops in the load which increases power draw. The rule of thumb I believe for that is the amp should double in wattage for a halving of ohms. The PMA-60 does 25W at 8 Ohms, and 50W at 4 Ohms, meaning it has an excellent power supply. Denon seems to think so too, saying it would handle the 3.2 Ohm dips of the LS50 just fine (and if not, the circuitry protection would kick in).
Additionally, I have a tried a few different amps over the years, and I honestly have never once heard a true difference between any of them. Initially, I thought I would, but after switching back to the old amp I would realise it was my expectation of wanting to hear a difference that would make me think I heard one, but in reality, nothing was different.
So I honestly don't think anything will change, and there are not much else choices I have without being forced to choose an ugly looking amp that would destroy my desk space.
Now I'm not gonna say you aren't hearing a difference, because you probably are. Me? I hear nothing, and I'm an objectivist - I'd want to see measurements before accepting what my brain says is the reality. Perhaps that has something to do with it, I dunno. I hear the LS50w's sound quite a bit different from the LS50s despite being the same drivers. My take is that it's not the amplification doing that - it's very likely the DSP, which is what made people excited about the actives in the first place.
Soldato
I think what he means, is that the amp is straining to power the speaker, whilst yes, it'll still be loud, the amp is working much harder to get it to that volume, this will likely shorten the life of the amp. Or maybe i'm wrong, but that's the way i'd understand it.
Permabanned
It's not always about the need for extra power.
Often higher power output units are built to a higher standard, meaning the quality can be improved over lesser powered units (although, there are a lot more variables to consider, so it's not as cut and dry as that).
With audio it gets a lots like buying a car with a big V8 or V12 engine for your daily commute. Compared to a 1.0l... bare with me, it's the easiest way I can think to translate the idea into another concept.
At 70mph... the v8 is barely being used, often sitting not much higher than idle and it has to use a very low throttle to provide enough torque to maintain that speed.
Whereas the 1.0, while capable of maintaining the same speed and conducting the exact same journey... will be under a much higher load.
That extra power in the bigger option is there when you need it, or there's a bit of a spike or similar... it's available and still not taxing it, whereas the 1.0 might not have the capability to deal with that boost... or it would be getting much closer to it load capacity, which means the efficiency curve drops of significantly and as a result, back to audio terminology, you lose a bit of quality in the process.
If Kef recommend that... they'll have a reason to, other than any partnership deal they might have with Cyrus... the Cyrus may have been used as one of the primary sources to tune the speakers, so it will be a good match too.
My best amp is rates as up to 300W per channel... at comfortable volumes, the readout barely goes above 3W per channel and rarely over 10W... at party volumes it's still under 30W... but it has a lot of room to breath and it's worth it... especially for the speakers it's driving... the lower power output version of the amp with similar quality internals, does not have the same finess as this one... but ultimately, it's only in certain circumstances... and perhaps 80% of the time, most wouldn't notice the difference.
I was happy enough driving my LS50s with a Yamaha A-S501... sounded good to me, but I was often recommended to upgrade it.
Often higher power output units are built to a higher standard, meaning the quality can be improved over lesser powered units (although, there are a lot more variables to consider, so it's not as cut and dry as that).
With audio it gets a lots like buying a car with a big V8 or V12 engine for your daily commute. Compared to a 1.0l... bare with me, it's the easiest way I can think to translate the idea into another concept.
At 70mph... the v8 is barely being used, often sitting not much higher than idle and it has to use a very low throttle to provide enough torque to maintain that speed.
Whereas the 1.0, while capable of maintaining the same speed and conducting the exact same journey... will be under a much higher load.
That extra power in the bigger option is there when you need it, or there's a bit of a spike or similar... it's available and still not taxing it, whereas the 1.0 might not have the capability to deal with that boost... or it would be getting much closer to it load capacity, which means the efficiency curve drops of significantly and as a result, back to audio terminology, you lose a bit of quality in the process.
If Kef recommend that... they'll have a reason to, other than any partnership deal they might have with Cyrus... the Cyrus may have been used as one of the primary sources to tune the speakers, so it will be a good match too.
My best amp is rates as up to 300W per channel... at comfortable volumes, the readout barely goes above 3W per channel and rarely over 10W... at party volumes it's still under 30W... but it has a lot of room to breath and it's worth it... especially for the speakers it's driving... the lower power output version of the amp with similar quality internals, does not have the same finess as this one... but ultimately, it's only in certain circumstances... and perhaps 80% of the time, most wouldn't notice the difference.
I was happy enough driving my LS50s with a Yamaha A-S501... sounded good to me, but I was often recommended to upgrade it.
Soldato
Sounds like he's basically talking about the quality of the power supply, then. Which, as Denon stated, should be fine. It also fits the golden rule of doubling for every halving of ohms... I don't see any problems here, basically. Unused wattage is unused wattage, and there might be something to be said about running the amp at near its limits and it straining, but 50%? Nah.
If anyone wants to loan me their top end amp just to prove me wrong you're welcome to, but I won't hold my breath haha.
If anyone wants to loan me their top end amp just to prove me wrong you're welcome to, but I won't hold my breath haha.
Permabanned
If you're ever near London and are curious... bring your amp along and I'll show you. I'm keeping my LS50s, so can use them...
With most IT equipment... the ideal max resource utilisation figure is often 60%.
With a PC PSU... the ideal efficiency and longevity orientated max load figure is 50%.
Audio equipment is often touted as a lowly 25-30%, depending on who you ask.
Also, some are much more sensitive to it than others.
Permabanned
Soldato
To be honest, I might spring for a demo of the LS50 actives. There is one thing the PMA-60 doesn't do (nor do any amps in this small form factor class do really), and that is bass management. It has a sub pre out, but no high pass filtering, which is lame.
While I'm demoing the LS50s, I'm still thinking the bass is a bit lacking (especially at the low volumes I listen to. Makes sense, bass energies are the highest and thus the first to go when turning down the power. Probably wouldn't be an issue if I had it cranked up in a larger room). That's not to say the bass isn't *good*, it just doesn't have the extension I'd like or am used to, It's still punchy and nice, just by laws of physics, unable to extend that low compared to the R300s which just throws enough bass at you at all volumes to blow your teeth off (probably a tad TOO much).
So I'm thinking of maybe playing with the idea of adding a sub, just to see if the LS50s would really shine with a full range sound added to it. I hear they sound even better once you high pass off the low frequencies so the cone only has to deal with the mids and highs, but alas, cannot do that on the PMA-60. I can do that on the LS50w though easily, and it would clear up clutter on the desk as a bonus.
My only issue? I hate how the LS50s normally look. The black edition is right up my alley, lol.
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Permabanned
I've only heard wonderful things about the LS50 actives... haven't sampled them or the R300s myself... though judging by your description, I'd probably have liked the R300s as long the that bass didn't muddle the mids and highs.
I'd be very very careful about trying to pair a sub with the LS50s though... unless there's a sub built to match them that I'm not aware of, getting that pairing I think would be very difficult or more than likely, wouldn't fit perfectly. You might be able to get close... but, personally, I would run the LS50s without a sub (and did for a couple of years)... I know what you mean, that sometimes a bit more low end can be nice... but for their size, I found the bass to surprise me pleasantly... but then I wasn't expecting too much thump from them.
If you want some good clarity, combined with decent low end... if you have the space, have you considered a paid of floorstanders? The acoustic alignment setup might not be perfect, but I find them better for that generally.
WOW....That very nice..
Permabanned
You can get on my paycheck if you want mate?
My ass too big, won't fit unless it's one of those oversized charity or lottery cheques...
Soldato
Yeah, I've spoken to a few people that run subs with the LS50s and to be honest they didn't seem to have much trouble. Been eyeing a Kef Kube 10b, seems as long as you can get a sub that is fast (aka, works well for music) it should be relatively fine.
Permabanned
They're built as something of a tech showcase that went to market as an anniversary special.
They have a certain technical brilliance about them and it's hard to find anything better at the same price point.
I loved mine... now wifey has taken them over.
Only thing is you have to like the Kef sound which can sometimes be a little bright. I like Kef clarity & when paired with a warm amp, they give a great combo of warmth and clarity.
But, if that red thing's yours... you can probably get better
Soldato
LS50s are a unique speaker in which the entire cabinet was designed around the driver, not the other way around. Gives it some unique characteristics. It's probably one of the best speakers you can get especially for a desktop setup due to their small size.
Best 2.0 in existence? Depends. It's all subjective past a certain price point. You could grab Kef Ref 1's for £5k. Or the Ref 3's. That would smash the LS50s into oblivion, but they'd require a lot more space.
LS50s can fit into smaller spaces so they're better for most people, don't have to build a room around them. However, I see a LOT of opinions saying they really need a sub integrated with them if you listen to bass heavy music.
For most people who don't want to deal with any faff, KEF brought out the active LS50s. Don't need anything else beyond a source to plug them into and they're good to go. No amps, DACs, cable faff etc needed. They sound better than the LS50s as well due to DSP onboard. Downside? They cost £2000.
One thing to note, however - you'll never truly appreciate quality sound if you immediately start off with the best system in existence. It's probably best to start with lower systems and work your way up.
Soldato
Oh my, thanks looks funky.
Better pictures... required! Get on it
I am not convinced that is his, though if it is we definitely need more pictures.
Associate
Nice!
Although this is in another league to every other post here, we need another new thread entitled 'Images of really expensive items I have purchased' just so us plebs can continue to post our mundane stuff in this one
Starting to think the same after reading the quote below
I was thinking it was just a 150k sports car
https://www.autotrader.com/car-reviews/2018-ferrari-laferrari-aperta-overview-281474979856032
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Caporegime
It’s not his, he’s a joker. Did you see his introductory post?
“I’m just a bloke with loadsamoney”
He’s either a bull*******, in which case we don’t want him here, or he’s another ElliottJames. Again, someone we do could do without. Methinks he could be a banned poster mucking about. Even his sig rig looks like the most expensive components just thrown together.
“I’m just a bloke with loadsamoney”
He’s either a bull*******, in which case we don’t want him here, or he’s another ElliottJames. Again, someone we do could do without. Methinks he could be a banned poster mucking about. Even his sig rig looks like the most expensive components just thrown together.