Boris and the burka

[koolpc]

I truly believe that the letterbox look should be outlawed. It has no religious backing. It alienates people, it can be a security risk, but most of all, women could get blinded when someone tries to post a letter!

Seriously though, it is not worn as a fashion statement. That is very obvious. To me, it is worn, in this country, as a way to stick two fingers up at the UK and western culture. Its there to intimidate non muslims and, this is not by the vast majority of women who wear them, no. Its by their families, husbands and extremist contingent.

 

[StriderX]

Wtf are you talking about @mmj_uk ... The F1 company decided that all by themselves, it's up to them if they feel it's necessary... Jesus Christ, it's hardly like feminists were suicide bombing their HQ.

What a farce that opinion is.

 

[zoomee]

The adult women seem to wear it of their own free will, I'm not convinced they are forced to wear it by their community or their
patriarchal elders.

However someone must instruct small schoolgirls to start wearing the headscarf thing, who would that be, teachers ? parents ?

Why should a 11 year old girl protect her "modesty" by covering her hair ?

THIS. - All the muslim women I know that wear the full head to toe covering do it out of their own choice. It all comes down to a certain verse from the quran and how THEY interpret that. Who are we as men to deny them being able to wear what the want? - we don't stop nuns from covering their hair!

Theres also a difference between hijaab and niqaab - the term 'burka' is actually an URDU term - not arabic.
Niqaab is the one that covers the whole face and body. Hijaab is the one that covers just the hair - burka is the URDU term for Hijaab.

 

[Amp34]

There is no legitimate reason for a women to wear a burqa other than to oppress her on account of her gender. It completely alienates the wearer from wider society. Total and utter oppression.

That's the same argument people use about women not being able to walk around topless.

That said, at its heart, it is basically the same argument. It's all about people telling others how they should dress to conform to social norms.

A lot of it comes down to family and culture. Have you ever seen a woman wearing hijab but covered in make up? Women wearing hijab but skintight clothes? There's not always a clear understanding of why a hijab is worn, and it's usually down to family and community expectations.

It's almost like different people have different opinions on style, dress sense and what "conservative" means! You'll probably find a lot of them are walking around with Ann Summers/Victoria's Secrets underwear as well, because it's what they want to do. Just like women without head scarves on.

As for Boris. It's just a calculated move to try and double down and gain more traction with the hard right of the Conservative party. Politics.

 

[Eurofighter]

Islam is a load of rubbish and so is the Burka but we should be helping people learn that and not insulting them, no need to be cruel.

And it shouldn’t be banned people should be allowed to wearvwhat they want.

 

[Amp34]

How the left have managed to turn the Burqa into a symbol of freedom I have no idea, they are truly masters of spin.

I don't think the "left" have done anything of the sort, other than continue to fight for the right of people to wear what they want.

It's the "right" that generally bring them up as a way of point scoring and to create division. This is exactly what Johnson is aiming for with his column.

 

[Roland Butter]

It's a bit like how there's a difference when school kids go to swimming lessons. The boys wear swimming shorts while the girls have most of their torso covered...

Not the same at all, a girl's torso is covered for modesty's sake in most cultures.

A muslim girl covering her hair is purely part of the sexualisation of underage girls,
she has to cover her hair lest it inflame the lust of men, no other reason.

 

[stockhausen]

Islam is a load of rubbish and so is the Burka but we should be helping people learn that and not insulting them, no need to be cruel.

ALL religion is a load of superstitious rubbish and we should be helping people learn that.

As you suggest, there is no reason we should insult people for their foolish beliefs.

Incidentally, I believe that the Niqab, Burka, etc. is not actually a requirement of Islam.

 

[Raz]

We swam naked at my old school.... Bizarre but true.

Was that with a particular teacher/after school type stuff...?

It's almost like different people have different opinions on style, dress sense and what "conservative" means! You'll probably find a lot of them are walking around with Ann Summers/Victoria's Secrets underwear as well, because it's what they want to do. Just like women without head scarves on.

Indeed. The problem is that there isn't a 'western' style of what HAS to be worn/not worn, whereas the same isn't true when it comes to Muslim women. There is a reason for wearing the hijab, and plastering yourself in make up contradicts that reason.

I also find it interesting that a lot of men want their wives, sisters etc to wear hijab because it's wajib, yet at the same time are clean shaven because they'll grow a beard when they're 'ready'. But that's a different topic I think...

 

[Amp34]

It's a bit like how there's a difference when school kids go to swimming lessons. The boys wear swimming shorts while the girls have most of their torso covered...

Exactly, who tells the young girl that she can't go running around in just bottoms anymore, and now has to wear a top as well?

One is considered "modesty" by western society, the other is considered oppression...

 

[Eurofighter]

ALL religion is a load of superstitious rubbish and we should be helping people learn that.

As you suggest, there is no reason we should insult people for their foolish beliefs.

Incidentally, I believe that the Niqab, Burka, etc. is not actually a requirement of Islam.

agree

 

[Raz]

Not the same at all, a girl's torso is covered for modesty's sake in most cultures.

A muslim girl covering her hair is purely part of the sexualisation of underage girls,
she has to cover her hair lest it inflame the lust of men, no other reason.

It makes sense given that Islam came about in the 7th century where children became adults of sorts at puberty rather than an arbitrary age of 16/18.

The whole modesty point with covering the torso doesn't really hold weight. I'm not saying hijab is exactly the same, it's just one more thing that some people add to what modesty is...

 

[Amp34]

Not the same at all, a girl's torso is covered for modesty's sake in most cultures.

A muslim girl covering her hair is purely part of the sexualisation of underage girls,
she has to cover her hair lest it inflame the lust of men, no other reason.

The first part contradicts the second.

Social norms dictate a girl should cover her torso over a certain age.

Social norms dictate a girl should cover her hair over a certain age.

Do girls have to cover their torsos lest it inflame the lust of men? Actually that's a rhetorical question because we know a lot of men wouldn't be able to cope with it, considering the actions of some men even when women are wearing tops...

 

[Amp34]

Indeed. The problem is that there isn't a 'western' style of what HAS to be worn/not worn, whereas the same isn't true when it comes to Muslim women. There is a reason for wearing the hijab, and plastering yourself in make up contradicts that reason.

I also find it interesting that a lot of men want their wives, sisters etc to wear hijab because it's wajib, yet at the same time are clean shaven because they'll grow a beard when they're 'ready'. But that's a different topic I think...

Walked into an office building recently? Shirt and Trousers for men, shirt/plain top and skirt for women - you choose the shade of dark you want the suit, but you can really go to town on the shade of blue/white your shirt is...!

More seriously, while it has become more lax/relaxed over the years there most certainly is a "western" style and most people conform to it, which is whey when people don't they stand out so much.

As for contradictions, that's very much in the eye of the beholder, and ignores the fashion/style part of the argument. Many that wear the Hijab for example will see it as part of their cultural heritage, just as many other cultures have a distinct item of clothing that "defines" their culture.

 

[Chris Wilson]

Was that with a particular teacher/after school type stuff...?

It was a school rule in the sixties and seventies, anyone using the school's swimming bath had to be stark naked, pupils and staff alike. No doubt it's changed now, I recall the school medical officer, old Dr. Fisher being an almost permanent feature in and around the baths, he was almost certainly a rampant homosexual, his medical examinations would centre on manipulating the genitalia and checking the cough reflex to a level of absurdity. You could be a Thalidomide victim with suppurating sores but is attention would never waver from "down below" He got up to much touchy feely stuff with the first year boys in the water, we older ones would be aghast at his boldness. He'd probably be under a charge these days but back then we just laughed. The bloody water was always freezing which in hindsight was a great leveller People who I have ever mentioned it to are almost always disbelieving of how things were back then. Needless to say it was a boys only school, but there was a tale of a female visitor getting lost and being found red faced and distressed in the changing room. Burkas indeed....

 

[Efour]

Why beat about the bush.
Medevil, women persecuting religion, takes control over their ability to interact in society. Brainwashes them that wearing it, it is for their own good.

 

[Raz]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/24118241

A BBC guide to the hijab, burkha and niqab.

 

[Raz]

And yet nuns walk around with pretty much the same thing (apart from showing more face).

Go figure

Really can't compare nuns to hijab wearing Muslim women.

 

[enkoda]

And yet nuns walk around with pretty much the same thing (apart from showing more face).

Go figure

Nun's habit = face clearly visible
Niqab/burka = face mostly/completely covered

So not "pretty much the same thing", they are opposite.

 

[Raz]

Why? The issue here is security, no?

Sorry, I was thinking along religious lines - a lot of people do compare the two in that way - but regarding security issues then still not comparable, at least not where the niqab is concerned. Hijab and burkha shouldn't be an issue.