Re run phone / ethernet cables - is it worth it?

Associate
Joined
27 Aug 2009
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712
Hi Folks. I just upgraded my broadband From BT Infinity 1 to Infinity 2, my real download speed has increased from 48mbps to 55mbps, so not exactly over the moon as it was advertised up to 75mbps. Anyway after conversations with BT and rework of my deal I have been convinced to stay with Infinity 2. BT basically said 'that's all your line is capable of'.

So that got me thinking if there were any improvements that I could make to my existing setup, and a friend who works in tech said there were a few changes that I could make which should improve the situation. Before embarking on this I wanted to get opinions from yourselves to save myself the hassle if this is going to turn out to be a splitting hair operation.

So currently my BT phone line runs up the dividing fence between me and my neighbors garden (semi detatched). From there it snakes left for about 2-3 meters under my living room windowsill, before going through the wall and entering an old junction box that looks like its only purpose was to join the internal / external cable. From here the cable double backs and goes 2-3 meters
under the internal windowsill and into the master socket meaning there is a good 4 meters of completely unnecessary telephone cable.

I have just replaced the old Master socket with a 5C unit so that job is done. From here I run a 5m phone cable from the master socket round my fire place and into the BT router in the middle of the living room by the TV. From here all the TV boxes and desktop are hardwired into the router, none is wireless to leave that free for the tablets / phones.


So my friend has recommended doing the following to improve my speed.

First, cut the double back section of my phone cable and run it directly from the fence in through the existing holes (for sat cables) and into the master socket. Next position the BT router right beside the phone cable and run a 30cm RJ11 to CAT5 Ethernet cable between the router and master socket. Then run a CAT5 cable round to the TV and purchased a Ethernet switch for all the devices.

Does this make sense, or is it a great big waste of time and effort???

The cable run across the fireplace is terrible and I am looking at a separate solution for that, but the room has just been renovated and will be decorated later the year, so a while to ponder that one. If an ideas please share.


See images below

WpP4BfQb.jpg
Phone cable running from fence past sat cables and along windowsill. (My router is right behind this wall)


WAsjkCMb.jpg
Runs right under this, then in the house and all the way back.

RLEbnKXb.jpg
Through this junction box

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Into master socket

CozKbR0b.jpg
And across the front of my fire, under the rug to my TV on the left
 
Associate
OP
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I have no idea on how to determine why it's slow. It's nippy enough, 20ms ping and 55mbps download, but it was estimated at 52-75mbps when I took the deal with BT.
 
Soldato
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Oxon
Surely it’s all down to your distance from the cabinet if your line is stable at those less than advertised speeds? Nothing you can do about it, except moving house.

BT will only guarantee the minimum speed, usually around 30Mb.
 
Associate
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The North.
I have no idea on how to determine why it's slow. It's nippy enough, 20ms ping and 55mbps download, but it was estimated at 52-75mbps when I took the deal with BT.

To be honest that sounds about right. In general your real world performance is usually at the lower end of the estimate, but usually a few mbps above the handback threshold so openreach don't have to do anything about it. Reducing or improving the quality of cable runs may yield a small improvement, but unless there is something seriously wrong, I doubt will be worth the effort.
 
Soldato
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Hants
Your external cable is attached to a fence? Or follows the fence line? The former sounds a bit dodgy if so.

Disclaimer - Any cable before the master socket technically you're not allowed to tamper with. There are "implications" if caught.

However I'd wager the extra couple meters is making a negligible if any difference.

I would test speeds again with equipment connected direct to the master socket though. It's not uknown for extention cables to cause issues.
 
Soldato
Joined
29 Dec 2002
Posts
7,176
Stop measuring 'download' speed and look at the actual sync speed, that's what's initially important (your connection to BTO's equipment), the former introduces more variables that are beyond your or your ISP's control and likely off network therefore relying on 3rd parties, if you do insist on using a speediest, then use the BT speed test as it's on network.

What your friend is suggesting (while technically not unreasonable or difficult), is highly likely to be pointless and a breach of civil/contract law. A few meters of wire out hundreds or more will make very little difference. Additionally the master socket belongs to BT as does anything up to it, the only people who are permitted to do anything to that cable or anything up to and including the master socket are BTO, or it's nominated contractors. If a fault results, it's billable, from your recent posts i'm not getting the impression this is an area you have a great deal of experience with.

I'd suggest checking your sync via the test socket (removes any internal extensions/wiring issues), look at the actual sync speed and pull line stats from the router before going any further, this will let you calculate what your line is capable of (roughly). Only one of the many lines i've got/had/looked after was on the low end of it's range, some have had faults, but all have been slap bang in the middle of the estimate or higher.
 
Associate
OP
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Stop measuring 'download' speed and look at the actual sync speed, that's what's initially important (your connection to BTO's equipment), the former introduces more variables that are beyond your or your ISP's control and likely off network therefore relying on 3rd parties, if you do insist on using a speediest, then use the BT speed test as it's on network.

What your friend is suggesting (while technically not unreasonable or difficult), is highly likely to be pointless and a breach of civil/contract law. A few meters of wire out hundreds or more will make very little difference. Additionally the master socket belongs to BT as does anything up to it, the only people who are permitted to do anything to that cable or anything up to and including the master socket are BTO, or it's nominated contractors. If a fault results, it's billable, from your recent posts i'm not getting the impression this is an area you have a great deal of experience with.

I'd suggest checking your sync via the test socket (removes any internal extensions/wiring issues), look at the actual sync speed and pull line stats from the router before going any further, this will let you calculate what your line is capable of (roughly). Only one of the many lines i've got/had/looked after was on the low end of it's range, some have had faults, but all have been slap bang in the middle of the estimate or higher.


Thanks for you informative post. Tampering with the phone line is not something I am keen to do, mostly because as you say a few meters out of a hundreds will make little difference. Master socket was my doing as it was simple and many had reported positive results. I took the risk and will pay to recfity any damage if Openreach demand.

My sync speed is 60mbps.
 
Soldato
Joined
29 Dec 2002
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7,176
Thanks for you informative post. Tampering with the phone line is not something I am keen to do, mostly because as you say a few meters out of a hundreds will make little difference. Master socket was my doing as it was simple and many had reported positive results. I took the risk and will pay to recfity any damage if Openreach demand.

My sync speed is 60mbps.

Is that via the test socket? What are the line stats? For an estimated 52-75, 60 is slightly lower than you may hope for, but it's well within range.
 
Soldato
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Lincolnshire
2 things...

#1 - Can you put your phone number on the BT DSL checker here https://www.dslchecker.bt.com and post up the results (hide your address ofc)
#2 - And can you post your router stats? Downstream, SNR, attenuation etc

BT checker results will help give a better idea what is expected from your line
The router stats will help show us what current state it's in and if it has room for improvement
 
Associate
OP
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27 Aug 2009
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712
I shall try to get these stats soon. Just back after travels.

However I have had some instant success. I purchased a RJ45 to RJ 11 cable to replace my long phone cable. Sync speed instantly jumped from 60.5 to 63.5 down, and 14.5 to 16 up.

Happy days, cable cost me £2.50 from a well know auction site.
 
Associate
OP
Joined
27 Aug 2009
Posts
712
2 things...

#1 - Can you put your phone number on the BT DSL checker here https://www.dslchecker.bt.com and post up the results (hide your address ofc)
#2 - And can you post your router stats? Downstream, SNR, attenuation etc

BT checker results will help give a better idea what is expected from your line
The router stats will help show us what current state it's in and if it has room for improvement


IBYEjSp.jpg




From router tech log


Data rate:
15.82 Mbps / 63.55 Mbps

Maximum data rate:
15837 / 64825

Noise margin:
5.8 dB / 3.2 dB

Line attenuation:
17.3 dB

Signal attenuation:

VPI / VCI:
0/38

Modulation:
G_993_2_ANNEX_B

Latency type:
Fast Path
 
Caporegime
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
26,053
Is your area served by overhead wires? I'm trying to figure out how you ended up with a cable running along a fence - especially one that's white and going through a junction box that doesn't look like one BT have ever used.

Can you find whatever's on the other end of the cable / where it goes off to? I'm guessing there might be a very old DP screwed to a wall somewhere and several houses are fed from it.
 
Soldato
Joined
19 Apr 2012
Posts
5,182
IBYEjSp.jpg




From router tech log


Data rate:
15.82 Mbps / 63.55 Mbps

Maximum data rate:
15837 / 64825

Noise margin:
5.8 dB / 3.2 dB

Line attenuation:
17.3 dB

Signal attenuation:

VPI / VCI:
0/38

Modulation:
G_993_2_ANNEX_B

Latency type:
Fast Path

Looks like your line is already running at its optimum speeds.
You are on a 3dB profile for the downstream so you won't get any faster than that. At least you get the 3dB profile option being on a Huawei cabinet.

Probably cross talk on the copper side of the route has knocked it lower over the years if BT's speed estimate is to be believed.

When I first got FTTC installed in my house I was synching at 76/20 on a 6dB profile. Now I can only manage 71/16 on a 3dB profile.
 
Associate
OP
Joined
27 Aug 2009
Posts
712
Is your area served by overhead wires? I'm trying to figure out how you ended up with a cable running along a fence - especially one that's white and going through a junction box that doesn't look like one BT have ever used.

Can you find whatever's on the other end of the cable / where it goes off to? I'm guessing there might be a very old DP screwed to a wall somewhere and several houses are fed from it.

So my cable runs out the house and into this green box in between my fence with my neighbour. From there you can see the cable head down into the ground.

tLokfhx.jpg
 
Associate
OP
Joined
27 Aug 2009
Posts
712
Hi Folks,

Just wanted to give an update as I completed all what I planned. I swapped out the face plate, installed a short rj11 to cat 5 cable. Then re routed the BT cable removing meter of unnecessary wiring and an old junction box.

Changing the face plate had no effect, however it did allow me to use a cat5 cable in the socket.

Changing the rj11 cable to a 30cm one added an extra 3mbps to my sync speed instantly.

Rewiring the BT line improved my ping from an average of 28, down to 20.

So overall nothing amazing, download speeds the same pretty much, but infidelity browsing feels a bit snappier. Not bad for £10 in parts.
 
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