metered vs unmetered water

robj20 · 7 Feb 2019 at 10:06

Kol said:
I get Dan's point, while water itself isn't finite, treating waste water so it's potable uses finite resources. If we waste less water, we waste less energy required to treat that water.

Water supply is never an issue, all that's treated is adding chlorine.
Foul water gets treated but goes to low level rivers which go to the ocean not back to potable water supplies.

danlightbulb · 7 Feb 2019 at 11:48

robj20 said:
Water supply is never an issue, all that's treated is adding chlorine.

This is so wrong.

Water resources themselves are finite to a degree, because the current infrastructure is more focussed on upland rivers and groundwater sources. The recovery time on these stores can be naturally long and are being effected by lower rainfall than historical averages. Also, the Environment Agency are getting harder on sustainable abstraction, restricting take from more sensitive sources to protect habitats.

Water could be replaced from lowland rivers, even the sea, but it is more costly to treat. You are also wrong that 'just chlorine' is added lol. Treatment processes use a wide range of physical and chemical treatments which are expensive. Removal of particulates with various types of filtration, removal of nitrates with ion exchange, removal of pesticides with granular carbon plus many more. All these cost money.

You also dont pay for as much as you like, you might think you do, because you can, but you dont.

Water companies use demographics to estimate the consumption levels across their customer base, which in turn feeds into tariff setting. You are actually paying for average use. If you use more and someone else less, then they are cross subsidising you. I totally agree this also applies to the NHS, but let me put it this way- would you expect an old lady using hardly any water herself to subsidise your garden watering? What about your energy use as well then? How about she shares the cost of fueling your car too? Its in this context that metering is the fairest way.

ttaskmaster · 7 Feb 2019 at 12:15

danlightbulb · 7 Feb 2019 at 12:24

ttaskmaster said:
OFWAT says water companies must reduce leakage. Checking pipes once a month is no use, as you might have a bunch of people with swimming pools and lawns that need watering. You need frequent measures during various periods of high-mid-low usage to profile demand and track the anomalies that lead to finding the leaks.
Now I could send my teams out to check flows and profile things that way, at a cost of roughly £233 million per round of checking.
I could use the existing metering data and employ staff in offices to collate the data and profile things that way, at a roughly similar cost but with the additional expenses in having higher graded office staff.
Neither of these would give sufficiently accurate data, though. It'd be like having your SatNav look at its map only once every few hours.
Or I can use an integrated SmartMetering system at a vastly reduced operating cost, with far more frequent monitoring resulting in accurate profiling for billing, massive leak reduction, and way more funding freed up for investment in other areas of customer concern.

I was more coming from the point of view of value to the consumer, which beyond the first two weeks of novelty these devices are usually resigned to the cupboard.

I agree they provide valuable data for leakage reduction, however there is nothing stopping companies installing smart meters (technology issues notwithstanding) on most properties for this purpose but simply not using them as the basis for charging. Some companies are already doing this. They then switch the charging to meteted when the occupier changes.

jpaul · 7 Feb 2019 at 12:39

danlightbulb said:
Anyway, smart metering is a waste of time entirely. A monthly pulse to get reasonable bill accuracy is enough for everyone except high use industrial, who would have their own flow monitoring anyway.

Not sure about that either ...
if we agree that the gas to heat water is cheaper than the water itself, my earlier post, I would like to know how much my washing machine/showers/power-washer are costing.

ttaskmaster · 7 Feb 2019 at 13:02

danlightbulb · 7 Feb 2019 at 14:07

@ttaskmaster fair enough, you obviously know your stuff on this topic, thanks.

im probably a bad case here. I dont even split my recycling from general waste for the bins.

there is a lot of cultural change to be done to realise those benefits.

ttaskmaster · 7 Feb 2019 at 14:15

snappyfish · 8 Feb 2019 at 19:07

Just about to have a meter installed. If there is a leak within your property grounds but outside house who is liable? Who fixed it?

Sasahara · 8 Feb 2019 at 23:08

robj20 said:
Which when you think of your metered water your paying the same for foul wether or not that water actually goes to foul. If you water your garden with 1000 liters. Your paying for 1000 liters with of foul as well.

If you use a high % of water that doesn't go back into the system you can get a foul water meter installed as well.
You tend to pay a lower % as foul water as standard, mine is 92.5% of my water usage.

Jez said:
I dont follow what you mean by water being a finite resource? We do not destroy water when it passes through our properties. I understand that thames water have to treat it, so to them it is constrained as a commodity and it is in their interest to control usage, but ultimately when demand outstrips their capacity, they will just build more infrastructure.

Rain is finite, and that makes up practically all the fresh water we use. We don't recycle used water directly, so no one is re-drinking you pee water from the sewage plant. That goes out to sea after begin treated.
It's not the capacity of the water pipes that limits it's availability.

Sasahara · 8 Feb 2019 at 23:15

snappyfish said:
Just about to have a meter installed. If there is a leak within your property grounds but outside house who is liable? Who fixed it?

Normally anything after the meter is your problem, or at the boundary of your property. There will be some exemptions to this. (This is also true without a meter for leaks on your property, you just don't get charged for the excess water)

Duke · 9 Feb 2019 at 09:33

danlightbulb said:
im probably a bad case here. I dont even split my recycling from general waste for the bins.

ketma · 10 Feb 2019 at 14:07

I pay around £56 a month unmetered, I did consider going to metered a while back but I wanted to know where in the garden they would be digging before I agreed as I didn't want an inspection cover in the center of the lawn or the drive messed up. They couldn't tell me beforehand so I cancelled....

Typically where do they (try to) install the meter, at the edge of the property boundary ?

Sasahara · 10 Feb 2019 at 19:05

ketma said:
Typically where do they (try to) install the meter, at the edge of the property boundary ?

Most around here are on the street pavement. Some new builds have then on the property.

Duke · 10 Feb 2019 at 20:06

Mines on the pavement out the front, they just replaced what was out there already which I think is just a stop tap or something? You can see who has changed and who hasn't here by the cover type (1980s estate).