I just find it an extraordinary waste of time, money and resource to promote a lifestyle that only effects a tiny proportion of society, not to mention, and this is something i have witness with my own eyes in the 90's/2000's, that some young men have been convinced they're gay by properganda from various activist groups and friends only to embark on a lifestyle that fills their life full of misery and depression, only for years later end up being hetro and much happier. And this is something that needs to be watched
76 trans children at one school
- Thread starter G-MAN2004
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I just find it an extraordinary waste of time, money and resource to promote a lifestyle that only effects a tiny proportion of society, not to mention, and this is something i have witness with my own eyes in the 90's/2000's, that some young men have been convinced they're gay by properganda from various activist groups and friends only to embark on a lifestyle that fills their life full of misery and depression, only for years later end up being hetro and much happier. And this is something that needs to be watched
Caporegime
And my 10 gay friends, of which there are 3 married couples, just want to get on with their gay lives. There isn't some global recruitment drive going on, only extremists are trying to convert people, the vast majority of gay people just want the world to have a "if you are gay, that is ok" view, not a "hey, you should try being gay, it's fab!" one.
I'm more of a "Just get on with with whatever, i don't need to know your personal life"
I've deffently met some of these extremists when i was younger and my best friend at the time got sucked into the whole 90's rave/drug culture and thought he was gay for a few years. The drugs ruined his life as he became an insomenic and was absolutely misrable and had clincial depression because of his gay lifestlye, then he met a woman who changed his life around. Ditched the drugs, patying and the gay lifestyle and his life was so much better. He told me a few years later he realised now he wasn't gay at all and just wanted attention and got it from the wrong people. Lets just say he's wasn't the only story i heard like that and there's deffently a bunch of preditory gays out there brainwashing very young men. We're talking borderline underage here
Caporegime
"Men (regardless of sexuality) in predatory shocker!"
That seems to be more a compounding of issues, not all gay people are in to clubbing and drugs, back then because it wasn't accepted, many were forced to the "underground" of clubbing culture, which was more welcoming of people in general. Yes it sucks, but I have seen similar happen with young women when drugs and clubbing are involved, it is definitely not restricted to gay people.
Don't hear much about predatory lesbians...
Soldato
I'm rejecting revisions to the meaning of Woman for political purpose? Really? Not because of biological reality? Not because of convention? Not because of etymology or historical use up until now? Not because I object to other people redefining words for political gain? None of these things could be my motive? I'm doing it for political purpose? Mmmm-hmmm.
Soldato
Well trans and sexual orientation have a weird relationship. The autogynephile trans people (men who get into it as a sexual fetish) are overwhelmingly straight and usually get into it as an adult also. Now that trans is being held up as cool and special, you get some gay boys going that route in their early years. More than that you get a lot of young lesbian girls going the MtF route. But trans and homosexuality don't really align beyond the social pressure aspect, imo. I think regarding your point a lot of men aren't attracted to trans women so much as their attracted to femininity and other queues. Autogynephile (AG) trans tend to be very sexually exaggerated in their presentation. So if a guy likes the "slutty" look, AG's send off those queues by the bucket load. Porn also desensitises the viewer causing them to seek out ever more extreme scenarios to get the same high. "Chicks with Dicks" ticks the box for a number of men, I would guess. Then you get sissy porn which isn't so much about wanting to have sex with a trans woman as being forced to be one. It relates to self-destructive / depressive urges as well as providing an identity where the identifier feels sexually desired / objectified. Whereas the same male will be unable to accept a fantasy where they're desired / objectified as a man because they either don't feel they meet the requirements or can't relate to a man being desirable the way they view a woman as being desirable. Gender stereotypes allow a man who wants to be objectified, debased, etc. to more easily fantasise about that as a woman than as a man. So she-male porn and sissy-porn are overlapping categories but not identical categories, that can both appeal to straight men as a fetish without a pre-existing inclination towards homosexuality. Of course you then get into a discussion of whether "gay" is defined by natural inclination or by practice. I.e. does fetishisation of oneself as a woman count as gay? That dividing line is quite visible in hookups in the gay community where a lot of gay guys are getting quite frustrated with "trans men" on their apps, etc. Which I imagine is pretty annoying but the reverse (men saying their women and trying to push themselves on lesbians) is a more threatening because gay men can usually handle themself whereas the average woman facing a man feels much more physically threatened. Not great either way, though. Google the term "cotton ceiling" if you want an eye-opener.
No licking!
Apparently, and this isn't a field I'm expert in, when a well-known online porn outfit moved its "shemale" category from its "gay" site to its "straight" site and saw more traffic than many of its more usual popular "straight" categories.
So that's straight guys absolutely loving the trans porn.
I have no data but can find and post the video which makes the claim if you want. It's one of Contrapoints videos though, so not sure how suitable it is for here.
(I'm a straight guy, btw.)
It's likely true (see above). But keep in mind that it's one category amongst MANY straight categories. It's not "she-male" vs. "straight" but "she-male" vs. "teen" vs. "MILF" vs. "femdom" vs. "extreme ____" vs. and so on. So it doesn't mean that straight men like she-male porn more than real women. Just that it's a popular category.
If you go on some of the TRA sub-reddits (there are Discords as well), you can find some of the grooming going on. They refer to young potentially trans people as "eggs" and specifically set out to groom and encourage them along that path way. I posted some related examples way back in the thread. It's a nasty business. It's also, ime, never gender dysphoriacs driving this, but the AGs (autogynephiles) doing the grooming.
Well they're very popular as villains in certain sci-fi movies. Barbarella springs to mind. There's even a TVTropes page for it. (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PsychoLesbian). But yeah, in real life it seems pretty rare.
I think we're going off in different directions here, but I do agree with you slightly - I have no problem with schools teaching kids to be accepting and tolerant towards those who are different in some way, but when it comes to teachers being actively encouraged to root out those children displaying "signs" of gender issue by organisations that have an agenda to push, something has to be done.
My concern was with the article you linked to, where placards read "Education not indoctrination" and another that said "Stop exploiting children's innocence" - the glaring hypocrisy of these being held aloft by Muslim parents is just astounding.
Associate
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Could be to do with developing attitudes so we don't all grow up to be homophobic (or whatever the right word is these days). (not having a dig btw)
Hypocrisy indeed from where the message is coming from, but i can't help but agree with the message itself
Sorry i had to double quote as i'm answering both posts at the same time. I can only speak to personal experiance but Yadda, if your 100% stright, which i believe i am, then you're not going to be attracted to any of that at all. At least i know i'm certainly not. And FYI as the saying goes, there's no such thing as "Chicks with Dicks" just "Men with ****"
Every man is going to different, but if you watch she-male porn then i question if you're "100% Stright", you simply can't be.
Soldato
Well, I was just using it as in the porn term, I agree with you. But I'm highlighting that there can be a difference between naturally arising homosexuality and induced or fetish-based homosexuality. Whether or not you want to distinguish between these two things is a matter of utility based on context. I think as someone raised the question of sexuality and trans I figured it was worth addressing. A lot of people relate trans as a sexuality thing. It is for the AGs but not necessarily for the GDs. There's also animé (oh, so many TRA accounts on Twitter with animé avatars!) where being fictional it's arguably possible to have such a thing. Irrelevant to the real world but pervasive in the porn genre of "chicks with dicks". However, I'm not really interested in purely philosophical arguments so not something I want to argue. We're in agreement, anyway - none of what I write is to disagree with you. Just continuing on your theme.
Fair enough. I was just emphasizing that some men fetishize the feminity aspect independent of whether it's an actual woman. Again, no disagreement. The porn effect on trans movement / issues / prevalence is an interesting debate, though personally my main interest dwindles once it goes beyond what actually affects children, people and Free Speech. I'm big on people's personal lives being their own.
I worked with one and i wasn't scared or indeed prejudiced against him in any way. But a man is a man whatever they do to themselves. No ones going change that, and if you're going to ask me to pretended otherwise then i won't.
Well I hate trans..atlantic flights.
Man of Honour
And (as always) the reasonable, ordinary people are irrelevant. It's the advocates who run the political show and control what happens. The reasonable, ordinary people are merely tools the advocates use for their own ends. It doesn't matter what's being used to define a group identity - the drive, the political power, the direction, everything is in the hands of the group identity politicians, not the people they are using as a group identity to advocate for (many of whom don't even support the idea of group identity in the first place).
Man of Honour
You're rejecting any attempt to define "female" in biological terms because of your pre-existing political stance. So yes, you're rejecting definitions for political purposes. You haven't even proposed an accurate and consistent definition of "female" to use.
Soldato
Presented without comment:
Do you reckon at some point it just clicks for these people?Presented without comment:
Soldato
Not really "clicks". I've never seen a sudden realisation a lá "But wait, I have a PENIS!" But people do detransition over time. Most child-onset trans people do. It's those who switch in adulthood or have started down a course of puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones that tend to stick with it. Can you imagine - you're infertile, you've had a double masectomy (or castration if male), you have numerous side effects and you realise you made a mistake.
How horrible.
At least they wont be able to breed, Darwin should take care of the rest