Electrical Works Query

RockLobster · 4 Mar 2019 at 21:25

As part of a complete kitchen refurbishment our builder/kitchen fitter employed a qualified electrician to add a new circuit for our induction hob and add/move electrical sockets. This was signed off and we were given an NICEIC Domestic Electrical Installation Certificate.

We've had another electrician come around who was employed by our carpenter (having wardrobes built) to move electrical sockets in our bedroom. He's done the work but cannot sign it off yet as he found a break in the main circuit ring. He will be coming back to diagnose the issue. My question is why didn't the original electrician pick this issue up. I assume he should have tested for this? Some of the new sockets in the kitchen are on this same ring.

a1ex2001 · 5 Mar 2019 at 08:22

You kitchen is on more than one circuit? That is scary and should be clearly labelled on the sockets.

The kitchen sparky should have tested if they are on the same circuit but there is no saying the fault was there at that time or that it wasn't caused by the new sparky.

You will be able to tell more once you know what the actual fault is.

Kol · 5 Mar 2019 at 09:10

That's not ideal if you have upstairs sockets on the same ring as not only downstairs but kitchen sockets which inevitably often have higher loads (kettles/toasters etc.). Your kitchen should be on it's own circuit, upstairs on it's own circuit and the rest of the downstairs on its own circuit, too.

How old is the place?

RockLobster · 5 Mar 2019 at 09:22

The place is 15 years old. Not all the sockets in the kitchen are on this same circuit. We have four sockets which are generally used for charging phones, SONOS, etc. Two sockets behind the new TV on the wall and sockets which we use occasionally to plug a cleaner in. These are on that same broken circuit. I've just spoken to the new electrician and he is coming back out to identify the cause of the issue. He agreed with you guys the other electrician should have tested this circuit. If he identifies an issue with the original work I will contact the original electrician and see what he says. If I don't get anywhere I'll contact NICEIC and seek legal advice.

Kol · 5 Mar 2019 at 09:30

Thanks @RockLobster in that case, yes, he definitely should have identified that.

Would you be willing to share (by PM if preferred) a copy of the certificate the first sparky completed (with your address etc removed) so I can see what he has completed on it? There are a variety of tests he should have performed, continuity etc. which would immediately flag a broken ring.

RockLobster · 5 Mar 2019 at 09:31

I'll pm you now.

Entai · 5 Mar 2019 at 17:44

RockLobster said:
The place is 15 years old. Not all the sockets in the kitchen are on this same circuit. We have four sockets which are generally used for charging phones, SONOS, etc. Two sockets behind the new TV on the wall and sockets which we use occasionally to plug a cleaner in. These are on that same broken circuit. I've just spoken to the new electrician and he is coming back out to identify the cause of the issue. He agreed with you guys the other electrician should have tested this circuit. If he identifies an issue with the original work I will contact the original electrician and see what he says. If I don't get anywhere I'll contact NICEIC and seek legal advice.

It is not clear from your description if the electrician who came and put in the new circuit for the hob, and moved some sockets, did he work on/move any of the sockets on the broken ring, or did he move other sockets already on the separate kitchen ring ?

If he was not working on the broken ring at all, its unlikely he would have checked out other rings in the house.

He would have checked his brand new circuit for the hob, and checked sockets he moved and the ring they are on, and issued a certificate for that work.

If the were not on the broken ring, he would never have found the broken bit as he did not work on that ring so does not check it.

the certificate only covers the new work, it will not cover other electrical sockets etc within the house

However It is still rather bad practice to have any sockets in a kitchen, or anywhere downstairs to be fair, connected to an upstairs ring main at all.

RockLobster · 5 Mar 2019 at 20:24

Entai said:
It is not clear from your description if the electrician who came and put in the new circuit for the hob, and moved some sockets, did he work on/move any of the sockets on the broken ring, or did he move other sockets already on the separate kitchen ring ?

If he was not working on the broken ring at all, its unlikely he would have checked out other rings in the house.

He would have checked his brand new circuit for the hob, and checked sockets he moved and the ring they are on, and issued a certificate for that work.

If the were not on the broken ring, he would never have found the broken bit as he did not work on that ring so does not check it.

the certificate only covers the new work, it will not cover other electrical sockets etc within the house

However It is still rather bad practice to have any sockets in a kitchen, or anywhere downstairs to be fair, connected to an upstairs ring main at all.

Apologies should have replied sooner. Issue now resolved it was a socket upstairs. Live loose.

Answer to your first two questions, both. The new electrician said he should have issued three certs. Installation certificate, Part P and minor certificate for the socket move in part of the kitchen. He didn’t issue minor certificate. New electrician now has.

RockLobster · 5 Mar 2019 at 20:28

Entai said:
However It is still rather bad practice to have any sockets in a kitchen, or anywhere downstairs to be fair, connected to an upstairs ring main at all.

When the house was built they put dining room, living room and upstairs sockets on same circuit. I don’t have a dining room anymore. Hence some of the kitchen sockets are on this circuit with living room and upstairs. Why dining room and living room were on upstairs sockets circuit I don’t know.

House was built in 2003. Is that relevant?