Nvidia Fire Shots At AMD’s 7nm Graphics Technology

[LoadsaMoney]

Remember Fermi, they were snapping them up, Nvidia couldn't make the things fast enough.

 

[spoffle]

Firstly no they aren't all hot and power hungry.
Secondly Amd's negatives are not just excessive power cconsumption. All reasoning and factors which area of negative tone towards Amd get ignored. And to be honest i'm sick of this gpu section, Because of the years I've been here, I still see the same old crap being dug up and put out.

The Amd defense team will only look at two factors 1. Price of card, and 2.Performance of card. So when someone makes a valid statement of say one example = how inefficient Amd are compared to Nvidia, it will always be defended with "but it's only going to equate to a few quid over the course of the year, or i'll undervolt my vega64 and it will match a Gtx1080".

The other factors that conveniently get ignored are the Mobile and Desktop markets, the cost of the pcb and power regulation components for a gpu that consumes more power. Meaning the card is more expensive to manufacture than a competitors card.

Prime examples are Fiji and Vega, Gm204 and Gp104. Fiji and Vega were big dies and expensive to manufacture and only catered for the desktop market, (no mobile). Whilst the cheaper to manufacture smaller nvidia G*204 chips enjoyed higher profits/margins and could cater for desktop and mobile with the same die.

Now yes Ryzen Apu's with Vega will continue to creep into the entry level Dgpu market. However at the time of Maxwell and Pascal Amd were in an unnhealthy position.

If you look at Nvidia having released the Gtx 1660 and 1660ti, they are running at 120-140 watts but increasing the fps over the Gp106 by 20-40%. Amd released the Rx590 prior to these nvidia gpu's now on a Gf 12nm process the power envelope and performance uplift is an absolute disgrace, and I'm glad the Gtx1660-ti has been brought out to address this tier in the market.

Navi has been pushed back and has lost it's golden chance to get the people who are after Vega56/Gtx1070 performance. Whether there will be masses buying into the 1660-1660ti, we'll have to see. But really Navi should have been out by now.

As for Turing, i'm not impressed, the failure rate of the memory is quite high. The pricing of the tiers is a pisstake by Nvidia and the gains from pascal to turing on the basis of tech which is effectively demotech is just a joke.

I just wish more people in this forum even if they have a bias, are more willing to see the full picture and to be able to have a sensible discussion.

You used a lot of words to say little to nothing, to be blunt.

 

[Davedree]

You used a lot of words to say little to nothing, to be blunt.

+1 fantastic.

 

[GoogalyMoogaly]

Also got to remember, too much heat and power, is only when its AMD.

In fairness I imagine when Fermi was released a lot of ATI/AMD owners brought up the power and heat as a negative point about Fermi, but then stopped seeing it as an issue when AMD started releasing the hot and inefficient cards.
If next gen AMD cards are cool running, power sipping cards and Nvidia's cards run hot and use 350W then the arguments will probably reverse once again.

If AMD's next cards are slightly more powerful and also more expensive than Nvidia's (I know both ideas seem unrealistic but just imagine) then I'm sure the "yeah, but the cards are too expensive" argument would get flipped around and people that worried so much about price would suddenly care about a bit more performance and the people that want performance at all costs would suddenly be bang-4-buck experts.

My point is, I suspect both sides are guilty of this.

 

[Rroff]

In fairness I imagine when Fermi was released a lot of ATI/AMD owners brought up the power and heat as a negative point about Fermi, but then stopped seeing it as an issue when AMD started releasing the hot and inefficient cards.
If next gen AMD cards are cool running, power sipping cards and Nvidia's cards run hot and use 350W then the arguments will probably reverse once again.

If AMD's next cards are slightly more powerful and also more expensive than Nvidia's (I know both ideas seem unrealistic but just imagine) then I'm sure the "yeah, but the cards are too expensive" argument would get flipped around and people that worried so much about price would suddenly care about a bit more performance and the people that want performance at all costs would suddenly be bang-4-buck experts.

My point is, I suspect both sides are guilty of this.

People keep skipping over the context of performance when it is convenient to their argument - it is a lot more forgiving if a card is hot and uses a lot of power if it also has a significant performance edge. When faster cards came out people complained a lot more about that aspect of Fermi compared to when it was released and it wasn't talked about favourably in those terms on release but generally accepted because the performance was there.

 

[Kaapstad]

Totally disagree with Jen Hsun's view.

The fact that he needed to comment means that the VII cards are causing him irritation.

Looking at the owner threads Radeon VII seems to be doing as well if not better than Turing.

On graphics performance Radeon VII is a serious competitor to NVidia if you remember that it has professional DP uses as well and a Titan V is not that far ahead but you can buy nearly 4 of the AMD cards for the price of the Volta card.

I would say Radeon VII has been a success and the NVidia CEO comments in a roundabout way only endorse that.

 

[shankly1985]

@Davedree
Yes they are.

GPU and CPU are all very hot and power hungry.

If you think running over 60c plus isn't hot then I don't know what hot is.

My point is all this talk for power consumption is pointless.

RTX vs Vega 7 we talking 100w extra max you wouldn't tell the difference in yearly cost.

 

[Brazo]

Totally disagree with Jen Hsun's view.

The fact that he needed to comment means that the VII cards are causing him irritation.

Looking at the owner threads Radeon VII seems to be doing as well if not better than Turing.

On graphics performance Radeon VII is a serious competitor to NVidia if you remember that it has professional DP uses as well and a Titan V is not that far ahead but you can buy nearly 4 of the AMD cards for the price of the Volta card.

I would say Radeon VII has been a success and the NVidia CEO comments in a roundabout way only endorse that.[/

If your going to go looking for positive comments on anything an owners thread is a good place to look. I personally favour professional reviews, which as you’ll remember weren’t so positive...

 

[EsaT]

Firstly no they aren't all hot and power hungry.

All high end cards have been that for years.
Time when cards exceeding 200W power consumption/heat output were rare is far behind.
Especially when factory overclocked non-reference cards are so fashionable and ubiquitous.

2080s push past 250W.
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Gigabyte/GeForce_RTX_2080_Gaming_OC/31.html
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_RTX_2080_AMP_Extreme/29.html

And 2080 Tis push past 300W.
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/EVGA/GeForce_RTX_2080_Ti_FTW3_Ultra/31.html
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GeForce_RTX_2080_Ti_Lightning_Z/30.html

Those just aren't something you can stick to any case and expect everything to stay cool without effort in case cooling.

 

[Kaapstad]

If your going to go looking for positive comments on anything an owners thread is a good place to look. I personally favour professional reviews, which as you’ll remember weren’t so positive...

I am just looking at the hard facts not what positive comments people put in the owners threads.

 

[vapor matt]

Totally disagree with Jen Hsun's view.

The fact that he needed to comment means that the VII cards are causing him irritation.

Looking at the owner threads Radeon VII seems to be doing as well if not better than Turing.

On graphics performance Radeon VII is a serious competitor to NVidia if you remember that it has professional DP uses as well and a Titan V is not that far ahead but you can buy nearly 4 of the AMD cards for the price of the Volta card.

I would say Radeon VII has been a success and the NVidia CEO comments in a roundabout way only endorse that.

As an owner of the VII I think its a great card, Kapp is spot on in the above, what let the VII down were its release drivers being poor, seldom do you see reviewer going back to test again and they always publish what they find on release with the drivers at the time, after that its on to whats new this week.
yes its not as power efficient but has turing been that outstanding for its price point and features, I don't think so and a lot have not bought into the turing blah from jen Hsun's it just works speech.

 

[GoogalyMoogaly]

Totally disagree with Jen Hsun's view.

The fact that he needed to comment means that the VII cards are causing him irritation.

Looking at the owner threads Radeon VII seems to be doing as well if not better than Turing.

On graphics performance Radeon VII is a serious competitor to NVidia if you remember that it has professional DP uses as well and a Titan V is not that far ahead but you can buy nearly 4 of the AMD cards for the price of the Volta card.

I would say Radeon VII has been a success and the NVidia CEO comments in a roundabout way only endorse that.

The other thing Jen might be considering is how many Radeon VIIs do AMD have to sell to see profit margins like they see off a Turing card (I've no idea what the profit is on either card/cards)

 

[Wizzfizz]

Jen, like every other sales man will talk crap to sell something. Across the board.

 

[Davedree]

All high end cards have been that for years.
Time when cards exceeding 200W power consumption/heat output were rare is far behind.
Especially when factory overclocked non-reference cards are so fashionable and ubiquitous.

2080s push past 250W.
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Gigabyte/GeForce_RTX_2080_Gaming_OC/31.html
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_RTX_2080_AMP_Extreme/29.html

And 2080 Tis push past 300W.
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/EVGA/GeForce_RTX_2080_Ti_FTW3_Ultra/31.html
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GeForce_RTX_2080_Ti_Lightning_Z/30.html

Those just aren't something you can stick to any case and expect everything to stay cool without effort in case cooling.

Ok without being to strong here, let me just clarify something here, I did say Amd's negatives are not just excessive power cconsumption.
What I'm saying is that whilst it's personal whether power consumption is a factor that matters, more importantly though there are more problems towards Amd which over the last few years have led to the brand image problem that Amd has in the market.

Yeah I don't disagree in what you are saying if you are comparing high end vs high end , the aib's also have higher power limits and oc'd so a little higher than the reference boards, same applies to Amd.
However like I said that's not all cards, If you now look at the midrange-lower tiers of cards then the power hungry and hot doesn't affect nvidia but currently it does Amd.
Which as I said in my post, Amd have buggered up with the delay of Navi but hopefully when it shows it will be able to put competition and value back into the intended market place.

1660ti 120-130w at 20%ish
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GeForce_GTX_1660_Ti_STRIX_OC/30.html
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GeForce_GTX_1660_Ti_STRIX_OC/27.html

rx590 200-220w at -20%ish
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASRock/RX_590_Phantom_Gaming_X/30.html
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASRock/RX_590_Phantom_Gaming_X/27.html

I've added this 1660ti then you are looking at around +20%performance at not quite but close to half the power consumption of an RX590,
I've also included a latest rx590 comparison to try and this also tries to aid Amd with a -30watt delta in their power inefficiency.

I'm not overally bothered about power consumption I have an Peasant64 and an Lc64 and I've had a good year and a half using Vega for gaming and projects.
But like I said in the previous post to Shanks there's a lot more issues than just power consumption with Amd at the moment.

 

[Davedree]

@Davedree
Yes they are.

GPU and CPU are all very hot and power hungry.

If you think running over 60c plus isn't hot then I don't know what hot is.

My point is all this talk for power consumption is pointless.

RTX vs Vega 7 we talking 100w extra max you wouldn't tell the difference in yearly cost.

Sure shanks I don't disagree when you are comparing high end vs high end, power consumption isn't too much of a worry for me, I have x2 vegas, however in my htpc as I only have an elite 110 and 300w psui, so it's nvidia for me in SFF until Amd can compete in this area.
But my points were that regardless of power consumption there are reasons why AMD has the brand perception that they do right now, this is due to the history of the last few years.
If Navi was here it would be different in a positive way, but it's not and now it will be interesting how it fairs in the reviews in the future, along with the fact that Nvidia didn't even try this gen and they still have a die shrink in hand.

 

[CuriousTomCat]

NVidia can release 7nm that blows everything away currently and do it far more efficiently than the competition

Okay so they release the underperforming, overpriced 20 series cards, some of which are faulty. Shares literally plumit by 50%. Then they quicky work on 7nm in a bid to recover market confidence. Yes Nvidia are working very efficiently.

 

[TNA]

Okay so they release the underperforming, overpriced 20 series cards, some of which are faulty. Shares literally plumit by 50%. Then they quicky work on 7nm in a bid to recover market confidence. Yes Nvidia are working very efficiently.

A lot of that drop is from crypto too to be fair. But yeah, they need to get 7nm out asap and go back to their old pricing model which worked. 3080 Ti at $699 and people will soon forget about everything and throw their money at Nvidia. They are better of doing smaller die's and pricing like before imo.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

Okay so they release the underperforming, overpriced 20 series cards, some of which are faulty. Shares literally plumit by 50%. Then they quicky work on 7nm in a bid to recover market confidence. Yes Nvidia are working very efficiently.

I don't see Jenson caring about 7nm for PC gaming cards before 2020 unless AMD drops a big bomb with Navi. IMHO, there is no motivation for them to go 7nm. Which is why he's saying that his cards are fine, NOW, at its current nm. I'm reading in between the lines.

 

[Stanners]

Can we ban posts about pretending to be impartial?

Because that is the cause of this. Certain people are constantly swearing blind that they're impartial when they are the biggest fanboys on the forum.

There's a good reason a lot of us are only buying nVidia, or haven't bought AMD in a long time, but we aren't blind to the way certain members post things hoping they'll get a certain reaction.

Don't forget that Gregster was one of the loudest people about how power consumption doesn't matter when he had a Fermi card.

I couldn't care less about power consumption unless it is extremely excessive to the point of absurdity, and I haven't bought an AMD card in years because to me, they are not good enough for me usage scenario.

I don’t care how impartial people are, we have people on both sides. They can post what they like as long as it is within the forum rules. What is tiring are people like yourself that single people out. I don’t see you jumping on Shankly as an example for being pro AMD and nor should you. If you want to discuss this further then please come and have a chat in FCD instead of derailing this thread further.

 

[Martini1991]

The difference with Fermi was while it was hotter and used more power, the GTX480 was the fastest single GPU around. AMD manage to be worse in all metrics for performance parity at best.