Solar panels?

[onomatopoeia]

I had a 5.2kWp system installed last month, so in time for the FIT. The biggest saving it will offer is reduced grid consumption, I have an R710 running all the time on top of more normal usage so use about 1500kWh / quarter. Tentative figures based on one month suggest instead of 500kWh of grid consumption I've used about 200kWh. I have been running some things like the dishwasher and washing machine when it's sunny though so have changed my own usage patterns. That's about £50/month saving, before the feed in and export tariff (which I've calculated at about £33) So, if we say that's an average based soley on it being around an equinox, £80/month = £960/year = after six years the panels will have paid for themselves. Without the feed in and export tariffs it would take about 9-10 years, but my electricity consumption is higher than most. For low consumers of daytime electricity the economics won't necessarily work.

Next step is a battery, which is more expensive but will both further reduce grid consumption and provide the opportunity to use cheap overnight electric to charge it up if the sun doesn't. And the added bonus of being a monster sized UPS rather than the various smaller ones I have on devices with mechanical disks.

What I'd like to see is a way for consumers with local storage to export it when grid demand is high and be compensated at the grid rate, but whether that will ever reach the domestic market remains to be seen.

 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Is your inverter capped at 3.7kw or did you get permission from your dno to allow full export capacity? Which direction is your roof facing?

I'd say your figures are on the optimistic side, February and March this year have been unseasonably sunny and expect November December, January to output less than 100kwh per month and more often February is little better.

 

[onomatopoeia]

Inverter is not capped and full export is allowed. Roof is between SE and SSE, the sun goes past the ridge line at around 3pm on BST. When I check it on a sunny evening at around 5pm it's generating 2kWh, effectively in shade.

It's exactly one month today since they were installed and looking at the figures it generated about 30% more electricity than the supplier predicted for March (my time period is 10 days later so not a completely fair comparison, of course). This was helped by a run of six sunny days where it was generating 25-30kWh/day at the end of March. So far in April, which has been a very mixed bag weather-wise here in Bristol with one very sunny day and plenty of grey cloud hanging around all day on some others, it's averaging 15kWh/day.

 

[balls]

I had a 5.2kWp system installed last month, so in time for the FIT.

Please correct me if i'm wrong but the maximum eligible for the FIT is 4KWp?

 

[samcat]

Please correct me if i'm wrong but the maximum eligible for the FIT is 4KWp?

Not quite... Since the beginning upto 250kWp could receive FIT. Best rate was typically the smallest systems, initially upto 4kWp, around early 2016 this was increase to upto 10 kWp. Different sizes got different rates.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/environmental-programmes/fit/fit-tariff-rates

 

[onomatopoeia]

Please correct me if i'm wrong but the maximum eligible for the FIT is 4KWp?

No. The rates payable are different dependent on size and early on the 0-4k rate tended to get quoted as it was assumed domestic systems wouldn't exceed this, but there isn't (and was never) a 4kWp ceiling.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

I had a 5.2kWp system installed last month, so in time for the FIT. The biggest saving it will offer is reduced grid consumption, I have an R710 running all the time on top of more normal usage so use about 1500kWh / quarter. Tentative figures based on one month suggest instead of 500kWh of grid consumption I've used about 200kWh. I have been running some things like the dishwasher and washing machine when it's sunny though so have changed my own usage patterns. That's about £50/month saving, before the feed in and export tariff (which I've calculated at about £33) So, if we say that's an average based soley on it being around an equinox, £80/month = £960/year = after six years the panels will have paid for themselves. Without the feed in and export tariffs it would take about 9-10 years, but my electricity consumption is higher than most. For low consumers of daytime electricity the economics won't necessarily work.

Next step is a battery, which is more expensive but will both further reduce grid consumption and provide the opportunity to use cheap overnight electric to charge it up if the sun doesn't. And the added bonus of being a monster sized UPS rather than the various smaller ones I have on devices with mechanical disks.

What I'd like to see is a way for consumers with local storage to export it when grid demand is high and be compensated at the grid rate, but whether that will ever reach the domestic market remains to be seen.

£80 in April doesn't mean £80 all year round.

You will be lucky to make £5 in winter

you will be lucky to get payback within 10 years. and in 10 years you will need to buy another inverter anyway.

 

[balls]

Not quite... Since the beginning upto 250kWp could receive FIT. Best rate was typically the smallest systems, initially upto 4kWp, around early 2016 this was increase to upto 10 kWp. Different sizes got different rates.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/environmental-programmes/fit/fit-tariff-rates

Seems my installer didn't either know this or explain this properly, 4kw system quoted, which only covers half my roof space

 

[sja360]

So what's the situation post feed in tariff? I assume if you're considering an install now it would be just for saving on your own electricity costs.

Would it be best to go for a 1-2kw system on the cheap? Or would a mix of 4kw panels and battery be too expensive as there is no feed in tariff returns.

I did spot E.on and octopus energy throwing the idea of offering customers some form of price per kwh. But whether this is a temporary 1 year deal then it faulters who knows.

 

[Firestar_3x]

Would depend on your energy usage, can you cram enough power into a battery during the day for it to run the house all evening?

Personally, the primary focus of solar isn't cost saving, its more to do with trying out something new, plan on getting some flush fit solar panels and a battery installed when we build our extension, but i suppose it won't hurt to offset the cost of running the Hot tub or AC!

 

[nutsnut]

So what's the situation post feed in tariff? I assume if you're considering an install now it would be just for saving on your own electricity costs.

Would it be best to go for a 1-2kw system on the cheap? Or would a mix of 4kw panels and battery be too expensive as there is no feed in tariff returns.

I did spot E.on and octopus energy throwing the idea of offering customers some form of price per kwh. But whether this is a temporary 1 year deal then it faulters who knows.

There's supposedly a new scheme coming in to replace the Government FIT, though this scheme will be ran by energy companies themselves whom will buy the unused energy back off you. There governments idea is that companies will compete against each other and we'll get a better price per Kwh sold, reality is something different though.

Regards

 

[D.P.]

So what's the situation post feed in tariff? I assume if you're considering an install now it would be just for saving on your own electricity costs.

Would it be best to go for a 1-2kw system on the cheap? Or would a mix of 4kw panels and battery be too expensive as there is no feed in tariff returns.

I did spot E.on and octopus energy throwing the idea of offering customers some form of price per kwh. But whether this is a temporary 1 year deal then it faulters who knows.

Depends a lot on whether you use more electricity during the day.

 

[samcat]

So what's the situation post feed in tariff? I assume if you're considering an install now it would be just for saving on your own electricity costs.

Would it be best to go for a 1-2kw system on the cheap? Or would a mix of 4kw panels and battery be too expensive as there is no feed in tariff returns.

I did spot E.on and octopus energy throwing the idea of offering customers some form of price per kwh. But whether this is a temporary 1 year deal then it faulters who knows.

There is talk of a new deal, where you get paid per kWh exported at a market rate..

Savings on your bills, so size of system/orientation will depend on when you use power (most households its later in the day, so panels orientated SW/W make more sense to generate later in the day). We currently have 1kWp installed (4 panels) on a veranda, have another 4 panels sat ready to go up as we have space, and the inverter is happy with upto 2kWp (its a 1.5kW inverter - growatt 1500s). This is SW facing and even with 1kW it nicely impacts our bills at this time of year.

Out roof is going to need some serious work in the next few years, when thats being done I am going to pay for 3-4 kW of panels per side, so SE NW split... Having crunched the numbers (https://pvwatts.nrel.gov) the NW side gets about 70% of the SE side, so still worth doing. This will give us a LONG generation day, from sunrise to sunset, and approx 10kW of panels.
Plan is electric bikes in the near future, and an electric car a bit further out.

If you are not afraid of DIY and have a suitable surface (garage roof, veranda, single story bit of house) 250 (ish) W panel can be had for about £60-70 each (so 1kW = £250ish), 2nd hand 1kW inverters for £100 and then all the others bits (wires, 2x DC switches, 1x AC switch, SWA if needed, warning labels and time from your friendly sparky) its easy to get 1kW of panels installed for well under £800.
Look up the G83 regs, guides readily available and follow the setups to the letter. Sparky installs/tests and signs the circuit off. Register the install with DNO and your good to go.
For roof of actual house I wouldnt do it, too high and too much to go wrong... But on a veranda/ground mounted install/carport/garage roof its quite approachable.

Yesterday was sunny, with 1kWp (1 kilowatt of installed panels) this is what I generated



Touch after 11am the sun swings around from the neighbours house and hits the panels

And domestic usage (NET of solar):
10.9kWh for the whole day



Got home ~4.30pm

There was a load in the dishwasher ran at around 1pm, and the washing machine ran about 3pm (delayed start is your friend with solar... Set them then go to work.)


Very easy when mounted like this:

 

[sja360]

There's supposedly a new scheme coming in to replace the Government FIT, though this scheme will be ran by energy companies themselves whom will buy the unused energy back off you. There governments idea is that companies will compete against each other and we'll get a better price per Kwh sold, reality is something different though.

Regards

Yeah I did think that competition for consumers selling back electricity is eventually going to be lowest rate goes tbh.

In some ways its good essentially doing peer to peer electricity, I always thought why not supply all residential properties with solar panels, obviously conservation and listed would have to go through planning but ideally we'd be given them. This would minimise the load on the grid somewhat and reduce general household electricity costs also it ties in with the government looking to stop utilising gas boiler installs.

I realise some are adverse to having panels on display but who really cares for the sake of vanity over climate change. My house is semi detached Victorian with turret as seen below. I'd still opt to make the house as efficient as possible

Spoiler: My house

 

[sja360]

There is talk of a new deal, where you get paid per kWh exported at a market rate..

Savings on your bills, so size of system/orientation will depend on when you use power (most households its later in the day, so panels orientated SW/W make more sense to generate later in the day). We currently have 1kWp installed (4 panels) on a veranda, have another 4 panels sat ready to go up as we have space, and the inverter is happy with upto 2kWp (its a 1.5kW inverter - growatt 1500s). This is SW facing and even with 1kW it nicely impacts our bills at this time of year.

Out roof is going to need some serious work in the next few years, when thats being done I am going to pay for 3-4 kW of panels per side, so SE NW split... Having crunched the numbers (https://pvwatts.nrel.gov) the NW side gets about 70% of the SE side, so still worth doing. This will give us a LONG generation day, from sunrise to sunset, and approx 10kW of panels.
Plan is electric bikes in the near future, and an electric car a bit further out.

If you are not afraid of DIY and have a suitable surface (garage roof, veranda, single story bit of house) 250 (ish) W panel can be had for about £60-70 each (so 1kW = £250ish), 2nd hand 1kW inverters for £100 and then all the others bits (wires, 2x DC switches, 1x AC switch, SWA if needed, warning labels and time from your friendly sparky) its easy to get 1kW of panels installed for well under £800.
Look up the G83 regs, guides readily available and follow the setups to the letter. Sparky installs/tests and signs the circuit off. Register the install with DNO and your good to go.
For roof of actual house I wouldnt do it, too high and too much to go wrong... But on a veranda/ground mounted install/carport/garage roof its quite approachable.

Yesterday was sunny, with 1kWp (1 kilawatt of installed panels) this is what I generated


Touch after 11am the sun swings around from the neighbours house and hits the panels

And domestic usage (NET of solar):
10.9kWh for the whole day

Got home ~4.30pm

There was a load in the dishwasher ran at around 1pm, and the washing machine ran about 3pm (delayed start is your friend with solar...

So are you getting money also via the FiT?

What you've got there seems fairly decent to me. Although your looking to expand which at some point everyone will also

 

[samcat]

Yeah I did think that competition for consumers selling back electricity is eventually going to be lowest rate goes tbh.

In some ways its good essentially doing peer to peer electricity, I always thought why not supply all residential properties with solar panels, obviously conservation and listed would have to go through planning but ideally we'd be given them. This would minimise the load on the grid somewhat and reduce general household electricity costs also it ties in with the government looking to stop utilising gas boiler installs.

I realise some are adverse to having panels on display but who really cares for the sake of vanity over climate change. My house is semi detached Victorian with turret as seen below. I'd still opt to make the house as efficient as possible

Nice digs!

Increasing insulation and reducing usage should be absolute top of the pile for everyone, as it makes a difference every day of the year, though I do agree about the solar, every new house should be required to have a minimum of 1kWp installed.. So many pop up and dont have any, it annoys me!

 

[samcat]

So are you getting money also via the FiT?

What you've got there seems fairly decent to me. Although your looking to expand which at some point everyone will also

No fit, as it was second hand kit and self installed it wasnt an option. The price difference between a paid install and a diy 2nd hand install made it a no brainer for me (and I am very handy, and have a friendly sparky that assisted as needed)

To be eligible for Fit it had to be installed by a Fit registered installer.

 

[samcat]

Bit more data... (data is my bread and butter, so I have charts for everything at home as well as work!)



This gives an idea of how the months of the year vary. Yellow is average sun hours per day, so solar should largely follow this curve.
All for 1kWp

 

[weescott]

We had our 4.8kw system installed in November last year. Payback is estimated at about 9 years. The Solar iBoost I worked out will pay back in about 4 years but it's a nice top up for our Solar Thermal/Bulk LPG system. Typically it diverts around 5kwh of excess a day to heat the hot water tank.

Expect a long delay before the FIT replacement comes in - the government themselves don't know when it will be.

I expect battery storage to be the next big thing in the next few years when prices come down.

 

[nutsnut]

I'll be getting my solars installed this summer, should be able to squeeze a 5kwh set up on the rook. Only doing it because i can get it done cheaply so the repay period will be a few years, I need to look at batteries as out next car will be electric.