The Tesla Thread

Burned_Alive · 1 May 2019 at 14:19

sovietspybob said:
Yeah don't know how people can be disappointed in the price, it's very well priced compared to the US version. I was pleasantly surprised by the price really, not that i'm in any position to buy one myself but i think it's about where it needs to be.

Anyone who thought it was magically going to be sub 30k was deluded. The Kia/Hyundai Nero SUV thing is about £36k so this feels about right.

https://electrek.co/2016/01/29/tesla-elon-musk-model-3-cost-uk/

This is when I put my deposit down as well (Day 1, but that was 3 years ago). Obviously things have changed recently, but I've waited for official pricing before finally cancelling the reservation.

Chris1712 · 1 May 2019 at 14:39

Burned_Alive said:
https://electrek.co/2016/01/29/tesla-elon-musk-model-3-cost-uk/

This is when I put my deposit down as well (Day 1, but that was 3 years ago). Obviously things have changed recently, but I've waited for official pricing before finally cancelling the reservation.

To be fair, it MIGHT still happen. The US did eventually get a cheap entry level model which we may eventually get aswell, and £30k in 2016 is £33k in today money so we'll get close.

The P model at 62k is an absolute bargain, kicking myself for being poor rn.

pioneer2000 · 1 May 2019 at 15:10

Well my deposit went down this morning for a performance in white with white interior. Not entirely sure whether I will go forward but very tempting nonetheless.

FSD is currently my biggest question mark as can’t see it being available for a long time here but the increase in cost to add later on (+the additional increase due next week) makes it tough to not opt for.

Burned_Alive · 1 May 2019 at 15:36

Chris1712 said:
To be fair, it MIGHT still happen. The US did eventually get a cheap entry level model which we may eventually get aswell, and £30k in 2016 is £33k in today money so we'll get close.

The P model at 62k is an absolute bargain, kicking myself for being poor rn.

Indeed and at £33k before grant i'd have been in. But dont think I'll need a reservation should I change my mind in the future, so will sit back and see what happens.

chroniclard · 1 May 2019 at 15:50

Isn't there going to be a factory in China towards the end of the year which will make the base/cheap model?

sovietspybob · 1 May 2019 at 16:05

chroniclard said:
Isn't there going to be a factory in China towards the end of the year which will make the base/cheap model?

I wasn't sure if that factory was purely for Chinese domestic cars or if they were going to export them from there?

Amp34 · 1 May 2019 at 16:15

Chris1712 said:
To be fair, it MIGHT still happen. The US did eventually get a cheap entry level model which we may eventually get aswell, and £30k in 2016 is £33k in today money so we'll get close.

The P model at 62k is an absolute bargain, kicking myself for being poor rn.

Tesla already kicked the SR into the grass after a month or so in the US. It’s very unlikely to come to the UK (and if it does I’ll be in small volume and difficult to buy). And you’re a poor businessman if you don’t take into account inflation on prices of future products...

Burned_Alive ignored rule no 1. Don't trust anything that comes out of Musks mouth when it comes to timelines or prices. At best he’s ridiculously over optimistic* and at worse intentionally misleading.

*To his credit he has acknowledged that most of his timelines are way too optimistic.

b0rn2sk8 · 1 May 2019 at 16:19

DiG said:
I didn't know there was a 10% tariff and presumed that there would be some % of sales tax in the US that would largely equal VAT - I didn't spend any time looking up relative tax rates. Useful to know where the difference comes from though - not really Teslas fault.

Two things you probably were not aware of:

there’s always been a 10% tariff on cars imported to the EU (assuming not covered by a trade deal which the US isn’t).

US prices are always quoted before tax because their tax code is a mess. Sales tax varies significantly by location in the US, there are state, county and city sales tax rates. For instance the rate in LA is different to Sam Francisco even though they are in the same state. It’s even more of a headache than considering VAT rates across the entire EU. Hence all prices are quoted before tax everywhere.

Burned_Alive said:
https://electrek.co/2016/01/29/tesla-elon-musk-model-3-cost-uk/

This is when I put my deposit down as well (Day 1, but that was 3 years ago). Obviously things have changed recently, but I've waited for official pricing before finally cancelling the reservation.

Four things to consider here, the government incentive is now far less, the price has gone up, it’s now bundled with AutoPilot and the £35k model has effectively been dropped and isn’t really available. That said the SR+ is a far better car and very good value compared to the SR.

Edit: the pound is also worth much less than back then. $1.42 vs $1.30, 9% more expensive due to the Brexit vote alone.

A perfect storm really

Dianbobo · 1 May 2019 at 16:19

I find it strange that PCP and PCH aren't an option yet, are that many people able and willing to drop that much cash up front?

thewanted · 1 May 2019 at 17:15

Dianbobo said:
I find it strange that PCP and PCH aren't an option yet, are that many people able and willing to drop that much cash up front?

They're probably controlling the supply by making the barrier to entry higher.

b0rn2sk8 · 1 May 2019 at 17:50

thewanted said:
They're probably controlling the supply by making the barrier to entry higher.

That makes zero sense, they want to sell the cars but they also want the most cash possible from the transaction.

PCP isn't available yet because they want to deliver to all the cash buyers first. PCP will follow followed by PCH (= lease), the USA only just got a leasing option in the last month or so. It's something they have been pretty open about on top of delivering higher priced cars first.

jpaul · 1 May 2019 at 18:12

Are PCP's as common in the USA, as the 80% penetration in the UK though ? so usa strategy does not necessarily apply to the UK, and they may need to deliver that sooner in the uk.

( have they said what kind of right hand drive production capability/intent they have, tooling up for that must incur additional production costs so must be a dilema of meeting UK vs EU/usa demand. )

thewanted · 1 May 2019 at 19:00

b0rn2sk8 said:
That makes zero sense, they want to sell the cars but they also want the most cash possible from the transaction.

PCP isn't available yet because they want to deliver to all the cash buyers first. PCP will follow followed by PCH (= lease), the USA only just got a leasing option in the last month or so. It's something they have been pretty open about on top of delivering higher priced cars first.

How are they not getting "the most cash possible" in a PCP transaction?

b0rn2sk8 · 1 May 2019 at 21:20

It's all about cash flow, cost, revenue recognition and accounting profit. You have to remember Wall Street live one quarter at a time.

Under the normal dealer model the manufacture can count sale as soon as it's shipped to the dealer network, the dealer now owns the car. It's irrelevant how the consumer finances the car because the manufacture already has their piece of the pie and that's all on the dealers books.

Tesla sells directly to consumers, they only get the cash when the customer pays and they can only recognise the revenue once the customer has taken delivery of the car.

Under the PCP model for the seller to get the cash right away the ownership of the goods are transferred to a finance company which is normally at a discounted price and the finance company may not pay them right away. Likewise at the end of the PCP they are contractually obliged to take the car back, at which point they will either need to service the debt or settle the finance. Either way it has a cost and a risk associated with it, it also reduces working capital available. There are probably some rules about what they can show in the accounts at the sale effectively isn't final and inevitably a proportion will be returned. They also still have to deal with the car once its returned.

jpaul · 1 May 2019 at 22:06

The pcp model is driving sales volume too, if, they have the customer demand and the manufacturing capacity, so it's beneficial to the shareholder/business

Although tesla might be rejecting an extensive uk dealership network at the moment in favour of mobile technicians, if they grow, they will need servicing centres to make efficient use of repair/servicing hardware and personnel, at which point a ready supply of ex pcp'd vehicles for them to sell is invaluable,
like it is for other manufacturers, to help introduce the 2nd tier customers into the brand, and, to fully utilise the service centres.

Burned_Alive · 2 May 2019 at 08:01

Don't get me wrong, I've always been sceptical that the 3 would come in at the ~£30k price point, but held my reservation just in case. Now that it's confirmed at the higher price then it's lost it's 'business case' as far as I'm concerned. Any fuel savings over the life time of the car are now irrelevant really and there's now nothing to offset the potential hassle of Tesla service/repair and reduced quality against an alternative.

Shame, would've loved to have made the jump.

DiG · 2 May 2019 at 08:20

Maybe I'm a fool, I've certainly been taken in by some of the hype machine I'm sure, but I've put my order in. For me this is the first (and probably only) time I've gone for a new car

Desmo · 2 May 2019 at 09:04

PCP should be available in a week or so time. From what I understand it's just a paperwork issue with the lenders that is being finalised.

Kemik · 2 May 2019 at 09:48

Desmo said:
PCP should be available in a week or so time. From what I understand it's just a paperwork issue with the lenders that is being finalised.

Yeah, it was listed originally but quickly went down. I was told to order as they sort finance closer to delivery.

Don't forget the 5k miles referral bonuses guys. If you already own a Tesla, apparently you can refer yourself... The 5k expires after 6 months though unfortunately.

Still can't decide between SR+ and LR. A bit of cold weather and rain means that a journey to my parents (Reading to Widnes) would need two short, 10 min stops on SR+ - which is annoying.

Journey · 2 May 2019 at 10:02

Kemik said:
Still can't decide between SR+ and LR. A bit of cold weather and rain means that a journey to my parents (Reading to Widnes) would need two short, 10 min stops on SR+ - which is annoying.

200 mile journey, ~3.5 hours, and you don't stop for a pee or drink etc?