And an E60 M5 isn't old now? Play fair...
What? I think you may have misunderstood my point... I was not comparing older gen N/A cars to older gen turbo cars, I was comparing older gen cars to new generation cars. Older generations tended to have bigger NA engines instead of modern day cars aimed at similar people which are now whizzy 4 pot turbos. On the whole, the driving pleasure that these engines, that are now two or three generations old, gave is far more so than the stuff that's generally been put out in the last 4-5 years. The stuff that has been put out in the last 4-5 years, such as in the hot hatch sector, is often 4WD, low displacement, lower revving, low lag twin scroll turbo'd engines. Hugely capable, quick and capable of worrying things double their price, but the driving experience cannot be described as exciting. It has been a common criticism of this type of hot hatch, going back to something like the 8P Audi S3 (which that was arguably the earliest recognisable incarnation of the 2019 hot hatches). I remember people who owned them saying how great it was at everything, then their face would drop a bit and say "but it's a bit dull".
I'm getting a whiff of willful ignorance here if you don't mind me saying so. There isn't a direct replacement for displacement, no, but sounds like your benchmark for what makes a car exciting is slightly limited. I'd take an Evo 8 or 9 over an old M5, personally...but that's because I'd choose a car that gives me a feeling that makes me love and remember them (see what I did there)
Not at all. Don't think I'm some luddite who only likes NA cars, strictly with a manual gearbox and if it doesn't do 10mpg, I'm not interested - because it couldn't be further from the truth. I like cars that are exciting, that sound good and give you a buzz. I think that, in particular, the last couple of generation of hot hatches absolutely don't do that. Partly because they are turbo'd and are so smooth so you never get that huge kick from a turbo kicking in. Partly because they are 4WD so you get none of that edginess from RWD or that razor sharp turn in from light FWD cars. Partly because they do sound pretty crap. Partly because they are *all* the same and there's very little to differentiate them.
And as a side note, something like an Evo was exciting because they were pretty mad at the time, putting out 400bhp 15 years ago, they were laggy and weren't super smooth, they were uncomfortable and noisy, they needed a service every 3 miles and needed new tyres after 2 miles. They were edgy, and although they never really appealed to me - I could definitely see Jap car enthusiasts would go mad for them.
But of course, they didn't sell many of them which is why Mitsubishi have said that they are now only looking to release hybrid SUV's - because they are trying to cater for the masses, which I get.
The days of exciting cars, many of them with "flaws", are numbered. We're currently in the era of hybrid 2 litre 4 pot 4WD turbos that are £30k and will fly around the Nurburgring like a scalded cat requiring little driver skill or involvement.
. The gearbox in the E60 wasn't good at all (it was a gearbox that was designed over 15 years ago...) but it's engine was a masterpiece. To a car enthusiast, it's the feeling a car gives you that really makes you love and remember them. There are plenty of other cars apart from the E60 M5 with lovely engines and a decent gearbox that can make you giggle like a child, but it wouldn't matter if a current gen Golf R/S3/A45/Civic Type R had a gearbox to destroy all other gearboxes - it'd still be soulless and boring IMHO.
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