** The AMD Navi Thread **

[Illuminist]

And I'll repeat myself: AMD have been close to bankruptcy for a long time, pray tell how do you expect them to produce Nvidia-beating products when they have the fraction of the R&D budget even when they're not facing going out of business?

You're coming across as rather petulant here, Illuminist, almost as if you don't quite grasp what's been happening with AMD for a long time. The vast majority of the market doesn't give a **** about top-end halo products, that's not where the money is made. I couldn't give a rat's ass about a 2080 Ti beater if it costs £800, that's twice what I could afford and wouldn't pay that much on principle.

And even if we see a Navi card with identical price and performance as Vega, this means there is more profit for AMD, meaning they can actually fund R&D to get their GPU game back. You're not going to get your pointless halo product without money.

As for "not even bothering to undercut Nvidia", why then did you pander to such perceived greed and buy a Radeon VII anyway? But you do also understand that Radeon VII is a PR stunt, right, and pricing it any lower than the £650 MSRP would have significant negative effects on Navi SKUs and prices, yeah?

Nice edit btw.

I'm not answering your retort for the simple reason that there is too much wrong with what you said and my "petulance" is your opinion on myself and not what i have said, that in my opinion as a long term enthusiast is valid and pretty accurate

 

[LePhuronn]

Show Navi beating 2080ti or similar performance for £800 or gtfo AMD, there is no point to your gaming gpus otherwise.

I'm not getting into a slagging match, but you really don't think your statement is even slightly childish?

Dont make high end cards and focus on the budget range then...

That is exactly what Navi is all about, or at least it was until this contradictory tripe about Navi 20 showed up.

...you don't seem to see that they pull on peoples sympathy but then deceive their customers and underdeliver for a premium price point

OK, this level of paranoia and persecution complex is just hilarious, especially coming from a Radeon VII owner. I suggest you go grab some milk and have a nap, clearly it's all a bit too much for you at the minute.


Oh, and it's hardly an edit if you post incomplete by accident.

 

[Illuminist]

I'm not getting into a slagging match, but you really don't think your statement is even slightly childish?


That is exactly what Navi is all about, or at least it was until this contradictory tripe about Navi 20 showed up.


OK, this level of paranoia and persecution complex is just hilarious, especially coming from a Radeon VII owner. I suggest you go grab some milk and have a nap, clearly it's all a bit too much for you at the minute.


Oh, and it's hardly an edit if you post incomplete by accident.

Wow you are an offensive individual, I didn't realise you preffered personal attacks over considered and analytical debate, you didn't take in anything I said did you. I am fully aware of AMD's knowledge that people see them as underdogs and every release since 7990 series has been a massive dissapointment to their fans, this is what i base my "paranoia" and "persecution complex" on .
Fury x - (EDIT Overclockers Dream they said) , here have a forced AIO because its too hot and no overclocking, rx 580 - buy 2 its then better than nvidia, Vega - poor volta, radeon 7 - its 7nm what can be wrong (its a reject instinct emergency gpu)

Yes i bought one, thats why im salty, and I think i have every right to be.
And no i dont think i sounded childish, salty af yes, extremely ranty, yes. You took it personally for some reason and decided to attack me personally. Your call, but you're wrong about AMD, just wait for Navi and unfortunately you will have forgotten this conversation to see that it proves me right.

 

[dragonslayer]

Everyone seems to forget AMD were borderline broke in the GPU section which is why their GPUs have been so awful

 

[bells]

Everyone seems to forget AMD were borderline broke in the GPU section which is why their GPUs have been so awful

Amd GPUs are not auful

 

[CuriousTomCat]

If Navi is just the same performance as the current line up of rx and vega then what is the damn point? yes it will be cheaper, but you can get a vega 56 for £250 , so why bring out a 7nm navi Vega 56/64 power for £250 ......... and as for the 3080xt being £300 cheaper than a 2080 for same performance, there is no way i can ever believe that due to the above and the past which must be learned from to avoid dissapointment!

Vega 56 is (was) a high end GPU with expensive memory. They make very little money by giving it away for £250 but they have to in order to compete with Nvidia's 1660Ti and 2060. AMD DESPERATELY need a 7nm GPU that's very cheap to make so they can compete at the low/mid range price tiers and make some decent profit.

Navi isn't going to have RX performance but the entry level card should have an RX price tag. Hopefully they'll be a lot of price tiers starting at £100 and ending at £400+

 

[CuriousTomCat]

Show Navi beating 2080ti or similar performance for £800 or gtfo AMD, there is no point to your gaming gpus otherwise.

Less than 10% of PC gamers have a high end GPU and 0.15% have a 2080ti. So what is the point in overspending millions and millions on R&D in a product segment that only 0.15% are interested in, of which 80% are biased towards Nvidia anyway?

Most gamers have a budget in the region of £200 - £250. That's the most lucretive price tier.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

IIRC,early last year the under $250(or was it $300) was 84% of the market or something along those lines. Although TBH,we would need the Navi equivalent of the GTX1660TI to be at least close to GTX1080/Vega 64 level performance,as you can already get GTX1070/Vega 56 performance at that price point already.

 

[Grim5]

Less than 10% of PC gamers have a high end GPU and 0.15% have a 2080ti. So what is the point in overspending millions and millions on R&D in a product segment that only 0.15% are interested in, of which 80% are biased towards Nvidia anyway?

Most gamers have a budget in the region of £200 - £250. That's the most lucretive price tier.

The reason you do this is scale-ability - You don't design a high end GPU to target the 1%, you do it because if you can make the high end work, then scaling it down makes it much easier to have an efficient card. Additionally it adds value to the marketing of the brand. Why does BMW/Audi/Mercedes sell halo cars that 0.01% of their customers buy - it adds value to the brand to influence sales lower down the chain

 

[Panos]

OK, this level of paranoia and persecution complex is just hilarious, especially coming from a Radeon VII owner. I suggest you go grab some milk and have a nap, clearly it's all a bit too much for you at the minute.

Oh, and it's hardly an edit if you post incomplete by accident.

If remember correctly Illumist had 2 RTX2080Tis, or at least said bought those back in October.
But maybe I am mixing him with a different forum member.

 

[Murphy]

Amd GPUs are not auful

Sshh, you'll spoil the fun of people tearing lumps out of each other because they think gaming GPUs are the be all and end all of GPUs

 

[D.P.]

The reason you do this is scale-ability - You don't design a high end GPU to target the 1%, you do it because if you can make the high end work, then scaling it down makes it much easier to have an efficient card. Additionally it adds value to the marketing of the brand. Why does BMW/Audi/Mercedes sell halo cars that 0.01% of their customers buy - it adds value to the brand to influence sales lower down the chain

Exactly, agreed 100%. If you design an architecture to scale then the high, mid and low end all get catered for under the same micro-architecture. This reduces develop costs, simplifies driver development and maintains feature consistency helping developer support and marketing. Nvidia don't spend hundred of million designing a 2080ti and hundred of millions designing a 1660ti, they spend hundreds of millions getting the whole line up done under one common architecture. AMD have been in a mess for a long time as they struggle to achieve any reasonable scaling and so their GU line up has been extremely fractured.

And yes, nothing helps Nvidia's sales like people seeing benchmarks with Nvidia GPUs dominating the top 50% of fastest cards around.

 

[Yaayuh!]

Show Navi beating 2080ti or similar performance for £800 or gtfo AMD, there is no point to your gaming gpus otherwise.

In other news, Audi will only make the RS range and R8 and BMW will only make the M series cars.

AMD could mop up the low and midrange. But oh wait, why bother as they don't have a top range card..

 

[Murphy]

@D.P., There's an argument to be made that that's exactly what AMD did and that they did it better than Nvidia, when looking at high-end GPUs you can't get higher than professional cards and depending on what sort of workload we're talking about AMD can trade blows with the best Nvidia has to offer, for a lot less money.

Where AMD fall down IMO is that they just don't have as much money to invest in the software development side of things as Nvidia do.

 

[Dontrocktheboat]

All Navi has to do to be a success is give me vega64+++ performance for about £300 and I am all in baby!

Simple enough really.

 

[Captain]

All Navi has to do to be a success is give me vega64+++ performance for about £300 and I am all in baby!

Simple enough really.

Why though? You can get a VEGA 64 close to £300 anyway.

How much more powerful do you expect it to be for the same money?

 

[LePhuronn]

If remember correctly Illumist had 2 RTX2080Tis, or at least said bought those back in October.
But maybe I am mixing him with a different forum member.

Don't know about the RTX cards, but he was one of the lucky few to bag a Radeon VII pretty much at launch.

 

[nashathedog]

Depends how high your expectations are really. I think they will make a product that will serve it's purpose well, but may not be the fastest card in the world therefore everyone will declare it crap.

That's the problem, people's expectations are too high & then it doesn't matter what they offer it's not good enough. When Ryzen finally launched and became successful we knew AMD would be able to start pushing more funds into R&D for Radeon, We also knew that we wouldn't suddenly see it's effect yet a couple of years later & everyone's forgot that & they're expecting knock out products,
The thing is Navi was being developed long before Ryzen money started to trickle into Radeons R&D so its early development was during the frugal years & it still has it's roots in GCN which has already been pushed close to it's limits so expecting Navi to be the knock out product is a mistake, the only way it will be is if they can come up with something special in it's second iteration or manage to develop a chiplet model.

As far as raw performance goes AMD won't be able to go toe to toe with Nvidia until they replace GCN.

 

[Sargatanas2511]

That's the problem, people's expectations are too high & then it doesn't matter what they offer it's not good enough. When Ryzen finally launched and became successful we knew AMD would be able to start pushing more funds into R&D for Radeon, We also knew that we wouldn't suddenly see it's effect yet a couple of years later & everyone's forgot that & they're expecting knock out products,
The thing is Navi was being developed long before Ryzen money started to trickle into Radeons R&D so its early development was during the frugal years & it still has it's roots in GCN which has already been pushed close to it's limits so expecting Navi to be the knock out product is a mistake, the only way it will be is if they can come up with something special in it's second iteration or manage to develop a chiplet model.

As far as raw performance goes AMD won't be able to go toe to toe with Nvidia until they replace GCN.

I agree with most but Radeon VII does show that GCN has the legs in it to be competitive. The sheer fact that AMD have a card that can compete with and fairly often better the 2080 for similar money tells me they're not far off already. GCN will be replaced sooner rather than later but AMD have done a good job brute forcing performance out of it even if it's at the cost of power usage.

I am pretty sure Nvidia are sitting on new performance parts they could release (2085/2085Ti?) but this is why competition is a good thing and I will never understand people who keep looking like they are desperate for AMD to fail. Everyone should want Navi to be good for the sake of better products and pricing for everyone.

 

[LePhuronn]

waffle

Dear Lord above, what is it with people acting like they've been murdered just because somebody offers a counter point and calls them out on irrationality? If you're so delicate that me suggesting one of your statements is "petulant" sends you off into this much of a fluster there is really no point in talking. I am more than happy to engage in "considered and analytical debate" but I cannot do so if you don't actually engage in such yourself.

Fury x - (EDIT Overclockers Dream they said) , here have a forced AIO because its too hot and no overclocking, rx 580 - buy 2 its then better than nvidia, Vega - poor volta, radeon 7 - its 7nm what can be wrong (its a reject instinct emergency gpu)

So why in the Holy Blue **** did you buy a Radeon VII then? You have zero sympathy from me about being "salty" and "ranty" about how Radeon VII is some kind of massive failure (despite you absolutely loving the card in the Owner's thread) if you genuinely believe your own fud about how AMD are milking public opinion and then churning out inferior products (intentionally or otherwise). Any semblance of "considered and analytical debate" goes out the window when you doubly contradict yourself in listing repeated failures and "lies" by AMD but still buy a "flawed" product anyway, and then proceed to engage in said product's Owners thread on these forums raving about how much you love it.

And what exactly are you going to be "right" about when Navi is released? How it's yet another failed product and AMD have lied to us all? Guess what, pal, none of us were ever expecting miracles from Navi. So if you prove to be "right" then you're only "right" in your own brain space because your expectations are of your own doing, not fuelled by any "considered and analytical debate" over the past year.


Now, if you actually have some "considered and analytical debate" to bring to this thread, then please do so. But if you only have "AMD must beat Nvidia or else they suck" or other fevered imaginings, kindly don't post.