** The AMD Navi Thread **

[d_brennen]

There is a fine line there between getting a free performance boost and not getting all the performance you should have done off the bat.

No you buy the card you buy on that day because the price/performance is right that day. Additional performance over time is never a given, it's a bonus.

If AMD can come in at performance level comparable to product X with a price that's lower than product X, that's what sensible people would pay. Most generations of cards, if not all from AMD in recent memory, have had a compelling launch price/price drops. Vega 64/VII weren't incredible value, but they weren't up against incredible value competition...

 

[Rroff]

If AMD can come in at performance level comparable to product X with a price that's lower than product X, that's what sensible people would pay. Most generations of cards, if not all from AMD in recent memory, have had a compelling launch price/price drops. Vega 64/VII weren't incredible value, but they weren't up against incredible value competition...

That has been the exception more than the rule though ever since "FineWine" started being touted as a thing. Vega cards might not have been up against incredible value with the effect mining had on Pascal prices but for a long time they were £100 more than the at the time closest equivalent Pascal card.

 

[HeX]

AMD To Host “Next Horizon Gaming” Event & Product Unveil at E3 2019: June 10th, 3pm PT

This morning the company is announcing that they will be holding a gaming-focused event at next month’s show, where the company is promising to “unveil the next generation of AMD gaming products.” And, as always, the June 10th keynote will be live streamed, ensuring that no one has an excuse for missing AMD’s latest announcements.

As is typical for these event announcements, AMD is playing their (video) cards close to their proverbial chest. The short announcement for the Next Horizon Gaming event notes that the showcase will present “upcoming products and technologies that will power gaming from PC to console to cloud for years to come,” with no further details on what will be presented. Historically however, AMD has preferred to use E3 for video card announcements and teases, as was the case in 2015 and 2016 with the Radeon R9 Fury X and Radeon RX 470 & 460 respectively.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14325/amd-to-host-next-horizon-gaming-event-at-e3-2019

https://twitter.com/AMDGaming/status/1128285759025315840

 

[Blackjack Davy]

If AMD can come in at performance level comparable to product X with a price that's lower than product X, that's what sensible people would pay.

Except people don't think like that, people only think short term and in their own self interest, they know Nvidia will drop its prices in response and buy those in droves instead.

 

[LePhuronn]

This sounds very unlikely, because

Aye. Like I said, it's unnecessarily granular.

If you look at the number of compute cores used in each SKU it does paint a picture that Navi yields might be a bit erratic; the 3090 XT "has" the full 64 compute units then everything from there pretty much sheds 4, so it's not much a case of "economies of scale" more like making use of every die that comes off the wafer and making a card out of it accordingly. That's pretty good in theory, but it makes actual product SKUs a tightly bunched up mess.

I can kinda live with 3090 (60 CUs) and 3090 XT (64 CUs) because it mirrors Nvidia's Ti moniker (and Radeon VII +10% should consistently beat the RTX 2080), but everything else needs trimming:

• Vega 64 +10% and RTX 2070 are far too close to be different SKUs, so bin off the 52 CU card and just name the 56 CU card to be RX 3080 and take on the RTX 2070.
• No need then for the 48 CU card which matches the existing Vega 64.

 

[Rroff]

so it's not much a case of "economies of scale" more like making use of every die that comes off the wafer and making a card out of it accordingly.

Pretty much how it used to be done and generally works out better for the consumer if a bit of a mess.

 

[TNA]

Some exceptions aside like the cards pitted against the 1060 it hasn't really been meaningful though - the 200 series were generally priced against the Kepler cards but couldn't match them for performance in a lot of cases until around 2 years after release when they started to overhaul them - partly thanks to Kepler architecture falling down badly in some newer games. Fury cards were priced close to faster nVidia cards IIRC Fury X was same price as the 980ti for quite awhile and it is only in recent games it can compete with that card. Same again with the Vega cards - the 56 was generally priced around 1070 money or for awhile it was around £100 more but only overhauled it around 2 years after the 1070 was released.

This goes back to 7870 days though no?

A lot of the prices being higher than they would have been had to do with mining and amd also having freesync exclusivity. If they try and do that today they will lose even more market share.

As I recall 970 and 980 were more expensive than a 290 and now the 290 is a better card than both.

But I get what you mean. If prices identical most would get the card that has better performance. But it never was cut and dry like that from my memory.

 

[Rroff]

But it never was cut and dry like that from my memory.

That is certainly true.

The 290 was more contemporary originally with the 780 though so it wouldn't have held its price against the newer Maxwell cards as much though in the long run looks like a better buy than either. (It is one of the issues for me though with the whole thing - I bought a 780GHz - enjoyed great performance for over a year before the 290(X) cards were matching or beating it then upgraded to a 1070 which was much easier to justify while many 290(X) owners held onto their cards which was just about still coping, with some compromise, in situations the 1070 was comfortable).

 

[TNA]

That is certainly true.

The 290 was more contemporary originally with the 780 though so it wouldn't have held its price against the newer Maxwell cards as much though in the long run looks like a better buy than either. (It is one of the issues for me though with the whole thing - I bought a 780GHz - enjoyed great performance for over a year before the 290(X) cards were matching or beating it then upgraded to a 1070 which was much easier to justify while many 290(X) owners held onto their cards which was just about still coping, with some compromise, in situations the 1070 was comfortable).

Was the 780 not more expensive though? If price is same and performance is better I would take the better performing card also as historically I don’t keep cards more than a year or two before upgrading anyway unless they are going into another machine I have. So from that perspective I understand what you mean. It’s just from what I saw AMD was cheaper when their performance did not match nvidia, hence my argument

 

[bru]

AMD To Host “Next Horizon Gaming” Event & Product Unveil at E3 2019: June 10th, 3pm PT

This morning the company is announcing that they will be holding a gaming-focused event at next month’s show, where the company is promising to “unveil the next generation of AMD gaming products.” And, as always, the June 10th keynote will be live streamed, ensuring that no one has an excuse for missing AMD’s latest announcements.

As is typical for these event announcements, AMD is playing their (video) cards close to their proverbial chest. The short announcement for the Next Horizon Gaming event notes that the showcase will present “upcoming products and technologies that will power gaming from PC to console to cloud for years to come,” with no further details on what will be presented. Historically however, AMD has preferred to use E3 for video card announcements and teases, as was the case in 2015 and 2016 with the Radeon R9 Fury X and Radeon RX 470 & 460 respectively.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14325/amd-to-host-next-horizon-gaming-event-at-e3-2019

https://twitter.com/AMDGaming/status/1128285759025315840

That's rich of Anandtech, seeing as the last event we had to watch a dodgy camcorder held recording of the stream because even though AMD did record it live they didn't let anyone see the stream until after the event was over.

Anyway I look forward to this event all the same.

 

[BigBANGtheory]

No you buy the card you buy on that day because the price/performance is right that day. Additional performance over time is never a given, it's a bonus.

If AMD can come in at performance level comparable to product X with a price that's lower than product X, that's what sensible people would pay. Most generations of cards, if not all from AMD in recent memory, have had a compelling launch price/price drops. Vega 64/VII weren't incredible value, but they weren't up against incredible value competition...

exactly glad to see someone else gets it without being accused of anti-AMD

If AMD product X beats nVidia 2080Ti for "a sensible price" then BUY

If AMD product X beats nVidia <legacy product who no one cares about any more cos its Q2 2019 not 2017> for "whatever price" then FAIL for PC (possibly good for consoles and retro PC gamers)

 

[4K8KW10]

exactly glad to see someone else gets it without being accused of anti-AMD

It's about valuing your investment with a look into the future. It's short-sighted to buy an nvidia card which will lose driver support after only several months.

 

[CuriousTomCat]

If AMD product X beats nVidia 2080Ti for "a sensible price" then BUY

If AMD product X beats nVidia <legacy product who no one cares about any more cos its Q2 2019 not 2017> for "whatever price" then FAIL for PC (possibly good for consoles and retro PC gamers)

That doesn't make any sense to me. An RTX 2080 has 2017 performance because it's similar to a 1080ti so are you saying that's only good for retro gaming? The RTX 2060 must seem prehistoric to you.

The 2080ti is a huge fail in my opinion because it costs too much to make and they keep failing.

I think you're trying to say that AMD needs to beat the 2080ti because it looks good for marketing and they can sell more cut down versions with 2070, 2060, 1660 and 1650 level performance which is more in line with peoples budgets.

Unfortunately AMD don't have the R&D money for a 2080ti card because too many people buy Nvidia cards which encourages Nvidia to sell more expensive cards.

 

[ANDREW GREEN]

If AMD product X beats nVidia <legacy product who no one cares about any more cos its Q2 2019 not 2017> for "whatever price" then FAIL for PC (possibly good for consoles and retro PC gamers)

Yea, I'm off to play Ultima 7 on a Radeon 7

 

[d_brennen]

exactly glad to see someone else gets it without being accused of anti-AMD

If AMD product X beats nVidia 2080Ti for "a sensible price" then BUY

If AMD product X beats nVidia <legacy product who no one cares about any more cos its Q2 2019 not 2017> for "whatever price" then FAIL for PC (possibly good for consoles and retro PC gamers)

That's not what I said at all. Cards at the RX570/580 GTX1060/1070 are very popular, as are RX560 and 1650... <insert legacy product here> for a reason. Not everyone needs 2080ti performance and MOST people don't want 2080ti price.

PC gaming is a bit of a joke now and PC elitists are massive clowns

 

[LePhuronn]

If AMD product X beats nVidia <legacy product who no one cares about any more cos its Q2 2019 not 2017> for "whatever price" then FAIL for PC (possibly good for consoles and retro PC gamers)

I've read some retarded things on these forums, hell I've even posted a few, but this statement has to be up there with the best/worst/most.

 

[BigBANGtheory]

Oh don't mind me I'm just keeping you entertained whilst we wait for solid facts.

I'm just salty that £500 doesn't buy you a high end GPU anymore and we've had 4k display for flippin ages we really should be there by now and it just seems like every successive release the vendors manage to screw with progress. Yes of course it makes sense for them to compete and win in the middle ground its just very dull and non progressive.

 

[ANDREW GREEN]

Heard today Lisa Su said she wanted 45% profit on Navi cards. I reckon that makes pricing all the more unlikely.

 

[Marine-RX179]

Oh don't mind me I'm just keeping you entertained whilst we wait for solid facts.

I'm just salty that £500 doesn't buy you a high end GPU anymore and we've had 4k display for flippin ages we really should be there by now and it just seems like every successive release the vendors manage to screw with progress. Yes of course it makes sense for them to compete and win in the middle ground its just very dull and non progressive.

Haha too true.

Gamers: "We want more graphic grunt for 4K and 144Hz gaming!"

Nvidia: "Here! Have Ray-tracing for 1080p with far but few games that use it! Oh the non-existence of Ray-tracing in games doesn't flow your boat? Here's a graphic card for you- the 2080ti that have an AWESOME 30% faster in speed comparing to the 1080ti, ONLY for DOUBLE the price of 1080ti was 2 years ago".

 

[Davedree]

Haha too true.

Gamers: "We want more graphic grunt for 4K and 144Hz gaming!"

Nvidia: "Here! Have Ray-tracing for 1080p with far but few games that use it! Oh the non-existence of Ray-tracing in games doesn't flow your boat? Here's a graphic card for you- the 2080ti that have an AWESOME 30% faster in speed comparing to the 1080ti, ONLY for DOUBLE the price of 1080ti was 2 years ago".

All true but your forgetting the failure rates of Turing too .
But on the other side of the fence, at VII and Rx590 launch;

Oh you're currently on a V56/V64 or below and nvidia is a no no for you, and you're so loyal and you've been waiting patiently you can have our VII which is 1080ti performance for the same price as 2 years ago.

Oh not in your budget, well how about a £230-£270 Rx590, whilst our eol v56 is about £30 more, or our competitor can offer you an older eol Gtx1070 that whops it for £270.