New Toyota Supra formally announced
- Thread starter Lowe
- Start date
Caporegime
Did anyone see that someone got one on a dyno totally stock and it made about 340 at the -wheels- despite the quoted figure at the -crank- being less than that?
Gentleman's agreement with BMW to under-rate it on power so the more expensive Z4 seems like an appealing option despite its mark up?
Gentleman's agreement with BMW to under-rate it on power so the more expensive Z4 seems like an appealing option despite its mark up?
Soldato
Unfortunately, those types of tests are meaningless – you can't draw any useful information from them, with regards to comparing them to OEM figures. Way too many variables.
It's like those 'My X has only lost Y horsepower after Z year'-type videos; those do my nut in. You can't tell – well, unless you had a time machine and ran the exact same car, on the exact same dyno, in the same conditions, when new. All a dyno does is give you a baseline for that car, on that day, and a frame of reference for future tuning.
Caporegime
Yeah but 340 wheel translates to 380+ crank which matches with the Z4's figures, no dyno is going to be that inaccurate when it's supposedly 330 ish crank.
The safety stuff causes a lot of bloat in modern cars
Only way round it is make everything from carbon fiber, but as it's not a mass produced material it would be mega expensive.
you do all realise its actually 50 kilos lighter than the old supra?
Soldato
There's a whole truckload of assumption right there, and that's just the start of the problems when it comes to things like this. A dyno can produce pretty much any figure you want, intentionally or not.
Caporegime
True. In any case though I'm sure in time plenty of people will dyno their stock supras and I will be proven right or wrong.
Soldato
Until someone pulls the engine from one and puts it in a proper test cell, nothing will be proven.
If you could put a Z4 on the same dyno, in exactly the same conditions, though – that might give you an indication of the gap between the two. You'd have to do it with a few cars, though, just in case the press car isn't standard.
Caporegime
Or that. I'm sure someone can arrange that.
Tbh a pair of stock production cars would be enough. At least for me.
Tbh a pair of stock production cars would be enough. At least for me.
Soldato
Any indication of date?
Test drives are at the end of next month at Thruxton race course.
Then delivery is September-ish.
I'd like to add my 2p being a die hard supra fan and someone who has owned a few (n/a auto & UK spec TT auto).
People are whinging about it because that's what people do. A focused petrol sports car in 2019 should be celebrated not shamed.
Point 1 : "it's a BMW m8"
Not true. It has a co-developed chassis with BMW and uses a BMW engine, drivetrain & infotainment. Once the bare bones of that was done both parties went their separate ways. Adjustments and tweaks were made by Toyota. Yes it is slightly disappointing to even the fan boy in me that the engine is BMW however, it is a straight 6 turbo, true to the A80. Also the engine is a very good one, if we wade past the rose tinted nostalgia we couldn't of asked for a much better engine really.
Point 2 : "not a proper supra, A80 was better stock for stock"
The supposed "desecration" of the Supra name is laughable. The A80 supra in stock form is not impressive, either slow (n/a) or laggy (TT) with the handling of an oil tanker. The interior looked unique but is very Jap (cheap). The main pull is those gorgeous swooping coupe looks, which in the right colour and tasteful (OEM+ mods) makes the car look almost timeless to my eyes.
The Supra had it's looks and it's potential when tuned.
Point 3: "It's well too expensive m8"
The A80 Supra in the UK was an expensive car, which is why only around 500 we officially imported as UK cars. They retailed at crica £40K in 1993 which works out to £80K in today's money. So the new A90 Supra is £30K/37.5% cheaper than the old model.
Point 4: "No manual, as if, not my supra m8"
Most A80 supras were Automatic, cue many memes and jokes as people on the internet believe that only "real drivers" will settle for a manual. I call BS, for one I have owned two autos, they fit the nature of the A80 perfectly and two look at the trend with all performance cars. Supercars, hot hatches, coupes, etc all packing autos. The auto box of 2019 is not your 4 speed 1993 transmission.
Point 5: "I'm not buying one, I'll stick to my old A80 or proper drivers car *insert old jap car here*"
That's fine, no one is forcing you to buy it. In fact you can't, at least for a few years in the UK at least. Are you in the market for a £50K sports coupe? Most likely no. So your opinion on brand new cars becomes somewhat irrelevant. As you are not the target market.
Point 6: "why didn't they make it a super car slayer like the GTR/NSX etc and be a true legend m8"
Because the GTR already has that crown. You would be stupid to go and try and dethrone such a car which has been established now for over a decade, has an insane tuning scene and still destroys much newer (and bigger budget brand cars) for only £85K new.
Also look at how well the Honda/Acura NSX has done. It's an amazing feat of machinery but the sales are nothing. Why would Toyota want to emulate that? people forget that the original NSX was a cut above the old Supra anyway, so they were never on the same platform. The GTR only got to it's loft heights as Nissan got rid of the Skyline tag and focused everything into making a true 911 competitor.
Summary:
- Faster than the old A80 supra 0-60 sub 4 seconds (stock for stock)
- Significantly cheaper than the A80 (37.5% less MSRP)
- Promising signs from the B58 engine that it will be tunable
- Already dynoing at above stock rated power (not 100% confirmed though)
- Looks like nothing else, unique, ugly, conceptual, it's polarising and personally I like it
- It's a petrol sports car in 2019 that actually is a sports car from the ground up, (not a go faster hatch or M/AMG/RS) RWD, petrol, 6 cyclinders, ooof
I'm trying not to be biased, as I have ordered one. I always said if they made the new Supra like the GT86 but with more refinement and power it would be a winner and guess what, it looks like that's nearly exactly what they have done
^^
Good post.
So you're acknowledging that we we have a car which has all the "bloat" of modern safety stuff, but which is still lighter than it's predecessor because it's built from better materials.
And as it's been pointed out, it's not really any more expensive than it's predecessor in real terms.
So...what's the problem? You just seem desperate to be as disparaging as possible about the new car, and I don't know why.
Good post.
The safety stuff causes a lot of bloat in modern cars
Only way round it is make everything from carbon fiber, but as it's not a mass produced material it would be mega expensive.
So you're acknowledging that we we have a car which has all the "bloat" of modern safety stuff, but which is still lighter than it's predecessor because it's built from better materials.
And as it's been pointed out, it's not really any more expensive than it's predecessor in real terms.
So...what's the problem? You just seem desperate to be as disparaging as possible about the new car, and I don't know why.
Soldato
I'm trying not to be biased, as I have ordered one. I always said if they made the new Supra like the GT86 but with more refinement and power it would be a winner and guess what, it looks like that's nearly exactly what they have done
I think you are failing a little if you cannot see that it's very much so a rebadged BMW that has had the Supra name attached to it to pull in some nostalgia sales.
Sure it's a good car but it's totally passionless and built to a budget rather than a performance target.
The underling mechanicals and interior are ALL BMW parts. Literally the only Toyota components are the engine and gearbox mounts.
Jalopnik have a good article outlining this:
https://jalopnik.com/the-2019-toyota-supra-is-a-bmw-parts-bin-car-1829563030
It's such a shame that Toyota chose to do this. It doesn't make the car bad per se but they're missed the point entirely by getting BMW to do it all.
The biggest crime really is not giving it a unique Toyota interior.
Would have been better if they'd not called it Supra and simply give it it's own designation.
Caporegime
rebadge or not, in today's economic climate, it seems like it would be no Supra or a Supra based on a BMW platform.
Of all the companies and cars they could have partnered it with to make the car, I would say it could be worse! Not to mention the reviews so far says it is a fine car, if you leave the history behind and look at it objectively, on its own merit. It is a fine car.
Of all the companies and cars they could have partnered it with to make the car, I would say it could be worse! Not to mention the reviews so far says it is a fine car, if you leave the history behind and look at it objectively, on its own merit. It is a fine car.
Soldato
Wait so now BMW interiors are naff and we need a Toyota spec one? Is this ocuk motors?
What would Toyota call their 6 cylinder turbo RWD drive coupe that outclasses their previous entry in that segment in every single way....
What would Toyota call their 6 cylinder turbo RWD drive coupe that outclasses their previous entry in that segment in every single way....
Soldato
- Joined
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Now you are just all out trollin....
Feels like they should have held a people's vote or confirmatory referendum.
Prius T Sport?
Caporegime
"George."
Soldato
I know, rubbish isn't it?