** The AMD Navi Thread **

[ANDREW GREEN]

With or without hardware RT? (does Navi have it?). If not, it's a useless comparison anyway unless people really expect to avoid RT for the next few years. I'd not want to buy a card now without RT personally.

This Navi does not, this is a video on the best and arguably only decent implimentation of ray tracing, shows you with versus with and without and benchmarks with ray tracing turned on at Ultra:

So if you plan on implementing Ray Tracing with a 2070 going forward, you probably don't want to game above 1080p because the ray tracing completely throtles the 2070s performance. If you look at the 1440p performance you're looking at 30fps frames and that's going to get worse as newer titles become more demanding. So you either game with Ray tracing off at 1440p or drop to High or Medium Settings. What's better Ray Tracing on at Medium or off at Ultra? Look at the comparisons earlier in the video, you can see ray tracing provides a better lighting effect but there isn't allot in it. So it might be you get a better image with ray tracing off at ultra.

You could switch DLSS on at 4k ofcourse but this is going to significantly downgrade the image, probably much more of a downgrade than turning ray tracing off.

So will you get much of an advantage on an RTX 2070? Probably only if you intend on gaming at 1080p throughout that time or unless you're happy to turn other settings down at a higher resolution.

 

[Phate]

I am very keen and interested in the new NAVI Card. Only one shown here but I wonder if we'll get an additional model announced at E3. Still, only 2 weeks to go to find out.

However I will wait until the cards are thoroughly benchmarked before purchasing anything. I'll be going team red either way. Likely the top end NAVI.

 

[DarrenM343]

This Navi does not, this is a video on the best and arguably only decent implimentation of ray tracing, shows you with versus with and without and benchmarks with ray tracing turned on at Ultra:

So if you plan on implementing Ray Tracing with a 2070 going forward, you probably don't want to game above 1080p because the ray tracing completely throtles the 2070s performance. If you look at the 1440p performance you're looking at 30fps frames and that's going to get worse as newer titles become more demanding. So you either game with Ray tracing off at 1440p or drop to High or Medium Settings. What's better Ray Tracing on at Medium or off at Ultra? Look at the comparisons earlier in the video, you can see ray tracing provides a better lighting effect but there isn't allot in it. So it might be you get a better image with ray tracing off at ultra.

You could switch DLSS on at 4k ofcourse but this is going to significantly downgrade the image, probably much more of a downgrade than turning ray tracing off.

So will you get much of an advantage on an RTX 2070? Probably only if you intend on gaming at 1080p throughout that time or unless you're happy to turn other settings down at a higher resolution.

I'd say 2070 is a 1080P card (considering the demands of RT), 2080 for 1440P and 2080 Ti > 1440P.
I've not tried Metro yet but using a 2080 in BFV I don't see a big difference between Medium or Ultra RT. People at 4K (or other high resolutions vs the GPU) drop other settings so lowering RT is the same, ie, it doesn't have to be Ultra or off.

More options is good and we all think differently. Budgets are of course different per person. One of the things I'd consider is the life of the Navi cards. As more RT games come out, people will want to use it, especially as the games we buy will have x amount spent on implementing it. It may be false economy to buy Navi now then have to upgrade in say 8 months or so, rather than getting a higher end RT card now.
My feeling is that the Navi GPU's are for the AMD diehard GPU fans. Someone with a 1080 Ti or Titan X will still either want a Turing card or wait for next gen from NV rather than buying another non RT card in Navi.
One RT reviewer of Metro did say that they wouldn't want to play the game without it after they experienced it. BUt I suppose if gamers don't experience it then that matters not.
Pricing may be key. How much would someone be willing to pay for a 2070 performing card without RT? 25% less? 40%? While it's still early days, it's a bit of a breakthrough in technology.

 

[SirPsychoZe0]

Apologies for my ignorance, but is this their new top-of-the-line GPU, or is RVII still claiming that crown? Will there be a more powerful Navi to come shortly down the line?

Was kinda hoping for something around 1080 Ti performance territory at a decent price. I'm using a 1070 Ti as a temporary upgrade which is probably on par with this card at least. Power efficiency is great of course, but surely most people don't care about TPM versus FPS.

 

[Phate]

Apologies for my ignorance, but is this their new top-of-the-line GPU, or is RVII still claiming that crown? Will there be a more powerful Navi to come shortly down the line?

Was kinda hoping for something around 1080 Ti performance territory at a decent price. I'm using a 1070 Ti as a temporary upgrade which is probably on par with this card at least. Power efficiency is great of course, but surely most people don't care about TPM versus FPS.

No its a mid-range GPU on a new core/archetecture. You can bet there will be a flagship to replace the Radeon 7 at some point.

 

[Ezyryder]

It is worth mentioning that the 2070 will overclock to practically 1080ti levels of performance.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SPhIrL2HfNs
Check the benchmarks threads on OCUK forums where a 2070 is even beating some 1080ti’s.

That is the secret weapon of a 2070.

That isn't a secret weapon, most 1080ti's can also overclock to 2080 and above levels. Same with the 2060 overclocking to 2070 levels.

 

[Poneros]

Just ran the Strange Brigade benchmark and got around 110 fps @ 1440p ultra w/ my V64. Whoopsie.

edit: #2, without async: 109 fps; #3 with async: 111 fps.

Guess I'm keeping it. RX 5700 is gonna have to be £350.

 

[ANDREW GREEN]

Apologies for my ignorance, but is this their new top-of-the-line GPU, or is RVII still claiming that crown? Will there be a more powerful Navi to come shortly down the line?

Was kinda hoping for something around 1080 Ti performance territory at a decent price. I'm using a 1070 Ti as a temporary upgrade which is probably on par with this card at least. Power efficiency is great of course, but surely most people don't care about TPM versus FPS.

RV7 is still top of the range for now. Yes there will be faster Navi cards down the line. If that brings down or not these prices we'll see.

AMD pretty much look like they're only price matching Nvidia for now but we'll await developments

 

[ANDREW GREEN]

I'd say 2070 is a 1080P card (considering the demands of RT), 2080 for 1440P and 2080 Ti > 1440P.
I've not tried Metro yet but using a 2080 in BFV I don't see a big difference between Medium or Ultra RT. People at 4K (or other high resolutions vs the GPU) drop other settings so lowering RT is the same, ie, it doesn't have to be Ultra or off.

More options is good and we all think differently. Budgets are of course different per person. One of the things I'd consider is the life of the Navi cards. As more RT games come out, people will want to use it, especially as the games we buy will have x amount spent on implementing it. It may be false economy to buy Navi now then have to upgrade in say 8 months or so, rather than getting a higher end RT card now.
My feeling is that the Navi GPU's are for the AMD diehard GPU fans. Someone with a 1080 Ti or Titan X will still either want a Turing card or wait for next gen from NV rather than buying another non RT card in Navi.
One RT reviewer of Metro did say that they wouldn't want to play the game without it after they experienced it. BUt I suppose if gamers don't experience it then that matters not.
Pricing may be key. How much would someone be willing to pay for a 2070 performing card without RT? 25% less? 40%? While it's still early days, it's a bit of a breakthrough in technology.

I mean personally I don't see a big difference on RTX ON and RTX OFF side by side. In truth I don't see a massive difference between Ultra and High and maybe not that much more on Medium Settings in general. There's allot to be said for tinkering for better performance on settings that don't affect the graphical experience very much.

If 2070 = 5700. But maybe I'd lean towards the ray tracing card. But on the other hand 5700 is more likely to have Fine Wine, ie driver improvement that makes the card last longer and be better for longer. Personally I wouldn't go with either in that price bracket, they've priced me out. There's little excuse for this when a 2060 is technically the same chip/card as the 2070, yet is retailing for £300 on sale.

 

[JediFragger]

But on the other hand 5700 is more likely to have Fine Wine

This is my feeling too as it's a new arch, AMD driver guy has a busy couple of years on his hands!

 

[Poneros]

Yup. Let's remember that consoles still dictate development choices & they will run on Navi. Same reason AMD's cards since the HD7000 series aged well.

 

[shankly1985]

It is a modified GCN architecture that AMD are marketing as completely new. I don\'t think the difference matters much, what is important is actual performance. Once you look through AMDs cherry picked benchmark we see a GPU that will be between 2060 and 2070 performance in most games for 2070 prices, but no DLSS and no RTX.

Here we go once again DP knows everything!
Tell us all how you can make this bold statement?

Think you would have learned by now with all the misleading bold statement you made about Vega 7

 

[willhub]

I'm keeping my eyes peeled, I want reasonable price upgrade for 4k 60 or minimum 4k40 consistently. Think new GPU not sure about any need to upgrade the ryzen 1600 at 3.7

 

[Participant]

It is a modified GCN architecture that AMD are marketing as completely new.

That's a bold statement considering they explicitly said it was a brand new architecture. Where did you get your information?

 

[subbytna]

Quick...redact, redact the claim

 

[nashathedog]

It is a modified GCN architecture that AMD are marketing as completely new. I don\'t think the difference matters much, what is important is actual performance. Once you look through AMDs cherry picked benchmark we see a GPU that will be between 2060 and 2070 performance in most games for 2070 prices, but no DLSS and no RTX.

If it does turn out to be a new but GCN based architecture that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Here we go once again DP knows everything!
Tell us all how you can make this bold statement?

Think you would have learned by now with all the misleading bold statement you made about Vega 7

That's a bold statement considering they explicitly said it was a brand new architecture. Where did you get your information?

This is interesting news, If it is completely new & not partly GCN developed beyond the limitations we know about we could see some very competitive gpu's hit the shelves next year, The thing to be wary of is the driver support, It usually takes them time to get the driver support up to scratch & a completely new non GCN architecture means going back to the drawing board to learn it all again. It's quite possible launch product will square off against higher level cards at some point, I'm really looking forward to reviews now.

 

[Participant]

If it's the same architecture as what will be in the PS5 and that Lisa kept referring to as 'the future of gaming' etc. then it surely must be a new architecture? Unless they're planning to rinse GCN for another 5 years...

 

[d_brennen]

It's a bit concerning that they've split GCN and RDNA for the data and graphics sectors. That means twice the driver support work...

 

[Participant]

It's a bit concerning that they've split GCN and RDNA for the data and graphics sectors. That means twice the driver support work...

I'm encouraged by it. Better dedicated architectures for specific work than trying to bastardise hot noisy compute cards for gaming.

 

[Killer7xx]

I think it's likely AMD will do a triple launch of X570/Zen2/Navi on 7/7. Will be interesting to see if there are any offers for buying the trifecta.