** The AMD Navi Thread **

[ltron]

I'm certainly more hopeful for Navi now that we are moving away from GCN.

 

[Stephanie Peterson]

Imho for the speeds the 5700 is talking about along with the perception of AMD products by the great unwashed anything over 400 is not a good idea.
Ok maybe 429 for a AIB overclocked job but ... nawp AMD dont go pricing this out of sight.

Its only the 5700... if there is (and i recon there will be) a 5800 and more then yeah but keep it under 400 and it will sell well with 1080 or 2070+ performance which is pretty decent.

And no it wont come close to vega 56 special prices, but what does? its like the 2600 for sub £150 quid, stupid VFM but old products nearing the end of life.

 

[Burnt_Custard]

I don't see Navi (5700) outright beating the RTX 2070. But if Navi can keep the power draw low and the manufacturering cost low. Then AMD is moving in the right direction. Cause that was always the main issue holding back AMD for years with Polaris and Vega.

I see AMD selling the 5700 at similar price to the RTX 2070 to be the "alternative choice" . Just for the sake of higher profit margins. And for the opportunity to sell off all their old Vega and Polaris card as better "deals"

 

[Stephanie Peterson]

If the 5700 comes out without a clear ~10% on the 2070 at the same price its not a great card.
I think it will come out ahead enough, but the price needs to be competitive or folk will just stick there heads in the sandbucket again and buy more nvidia.

What i want to see is a 5800 on 1080ti performance as that is a good performance bracket to be in - enough for 4k gaming mostly. Get a product out with that price 100 or so under nvidia and... win.

 

[nashathedog]

Today we're seeing Navi compared to the 2070 in Strange Brigade, It reminds me of Vega being compared to the 1080 in Doom & we all know how that went. AMD will continue price matching like they did with the VII. They'll ignore the Ray tracing feature Nvidia's RTX range has & write it off as not being a value adding feature at this point in time meaning they won't consider not having it a reason to lower pricing.

 

[Xephron]

Luckily we only got less than 2 weeks to wait to find out more info.
I'm definitely buying Ryzen 3000 CPU, but as for the GPU, doesn't look good.

https://videocardz.com/80883/amd-radeon-rx-5700-navi-series-feature-225w-and-180w-skus

Those Asrock cards look huge, a lot of cooling, I read somewhere that the Demo'd card vs the 2070 was the 225w SKU.

5700 225W on 7nm vs 2070 185-195W on 12nm...is just sad.

RDNA, what ever you want to say it is, new Arch or not, isn't anymore efficient, the lower power draw is all coming from the die shrink.

Question is how hungry will Big Navi be?

If Sapphire's leaks are true, and the 225w SKU is 499, then FeelsBadMan, releasing a card 1 year late that draws more power for same-ish performance, without(even if RT is useless) Ray Tracing
for pretty much the same price....is just confusing.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Navi looks like a power hog on 7NM! RTG doh!

AMD Radeon RX 5700 Navi series feature 225W and 180W SKUs

https://videocardz.com/80883/amd-radeon-rx-5700-navi-series-feature-225w-and-180w-skus

They quoted a WCCFTech article which says 150W and 180W TDPs.

 

[Xephron]

They quoted a WCCFTech article which says 150W and 180W TDPs.

Yeah sorry, you're right.

 

[Scougar]

But at least moving in the right direction. All AMD need now is another mining boom lol.

 

[Xephron]

Luckily we only got less than 2 weeks to wait to find out more info.
I'm definitely buying Ryzen 3000 CPU, but as for the GPU, doesn't look good.

https://videocardz.com/80883/amd-radeon-rx-5700-navi-series-feature-225w-and-180w-skus

Those Asrock cards look huge, a lot of cooling, I read somewhere that the Demo'd card vs the 2070 was the 225w SKU.

5700 225W on 7nm vs 2070 185-195W on 12nm...is just sad.

RDNA, what ever you want to say it is, new Arch or not, isn't anymore efficient, the lower power draw is all coming from the die shrink.

Question is how hungry will Big Navi be?

If Sapphire's leaks are true, and the 225w SKU is 499, then FeelsBadMan, releasing a card 1 year late that draws more power for same-ish performance, without(even if RT is useless) Ray Tracing
for pretty much the same price....is just confusing.

So changing what I said earlier.

5700 180W on 7nm vs 2070 185-195W on 12nm, not as sad, but still.

So basically a card that's 1 year late to the party, draws same-ish power, for same-ish performance, for nearly the same price....still doesn't make sense considering it's 1 year late.

Also considering the die is more compact, and has a smaller footprint, nearly half the size of the 2070, and still consumes the same power, means it'll take more to dissipate the heat from such a small area?
And if that's the case, wouldn't Big Navi be even more toasty?

 

[Grim5]

AsRock put up some draft cards as computex that will be used for Navi - there were a few, not all will be used.
All the designs looked like 2slot or thicker with triple fans

here is one of them. I don't know if the PCB there is a navi or just a placeholder

https://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-rx-5000-navi-gpu-7nm-asrock-two-variants-report/

 

[Illuminist]

Yeah sorry, you're right.

its 180 but with a max of 225

 

[Illuminist]

So changing what I said earlier.

5700 180W on 7nm vs 2070 185-195W on 12nm, not as sad, but still.

So basically a card that's 1 year late to the party, draws same-ish power, for same-ish performance, for nearly the same price....still doesn't make sense considering it's 1 year late.

Also considering the die is more compact, and has a smaller footprint, nearly half the size of the 2070, and still consumes the same power, means it'll take more to dissipate the heat from such a small area?
And if that's the case, wouldn't Big Navi be even more toasty?

I never understand when people say "2070 performance but 1 year late"
The 2070 is for sale now... right now, not 1 year ago, so matching it is completely current and not old, its like saying the 1660 is just matching 5 year old tech (980ti) it doesnt make sense

 

[Spyhop]

I never understand when people say "2070 performance but 1 year late"
The 2070 is for sale now... right now, not 1 year ago, so matching it is completely current and not old

The later something gets released, the sooner it's liable to get leapfrogged. I see it as more of a criticism of the company strategy that the specific product.

 

[Illuminist]

As for using strange brigade, that worries me a lot, its a safe AMD title that already has higher fps for their cards on vega and rad 7, I think it's going to be the same as radeon 7 vs 2080 in the 5700 vs 2070, its going to win on a handful of games and be under it for the rest.

I still think they should have unzipped and flopped their bits on the table and said, boom, heres a 2080ti +10% performance for £999 , then anything under that would carry the weight it needed to rip people away from envidias green all seeing eye even if they didnt sell many top tier, the mid and low would just hold that power of being the team with the biggest willy

 

[Poneros]

Now that AMD has released TBP (power) information for Navi, I decided to do a little bit of data crunching using the data provided in this comparison, which compares stock (and overclocked) RTX 2070 FE against an RX VEGA 64, to see how Navi fairs according to AMD. I chose this data set because its relatively organized and has a lot of games as well as being somewhat recent.
The main piece of information that this analysis hinges upon is AMD's claim that Navi is 1.5x performance per watt (see Computex keynote). Also, the RX VEGA 64 is used as the point of reference/comparison in this brief analysis.
Assumption 1 (face value): The 225W variant Navi 5700 card is 1.5x ppw compared to 295W Vega 64. This translates to 14.4% higher performance for the Navi card.
Alternative assumption 2: AMD rounded up the ppw multiplier. So instead of 1.5x , I took 1.45x. I was just curious to see the impact on the numbers.
Alternative assumption 3: AMD told a little fib. Instead of 1.5x ppw compared to Vega 64, it is actually 1.35x. I think this can serve as a floor(worst case) for our expectations maybe...
DX11 results (25 games)
-------------------------------------------------------------
Vega 64 gives -8.4% fps compared to 2070 FE
Assumption 1 (stock vs stock): 1.5xppw
Navi (225W) gives +4.79% fps compared to 2070 FE
Assumption 2 (stock vs stock): 1.45xppw
Navi (225W) gives +1.30% fps compared to 2070 FE
Assumption 3 (stock vs stock): 1.35xppw
Navi (225W) gives -5.69% fps compared to 2070 FE
DX12 results (12 games)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Vega 64 gives +2.72% fps compared to 2070 FE (this surprised me)
Assumption 1 (stock vs stock):
Navi (225W) gives +17.54% fps compared to 2070 FE
Assumption 2 (stock vs stock):
Navi (225W) gives +13.61% fps compared to 2070 FE
Assumption 3 (stock vs stock):
Navi (225W) gives +5.78% fps compared to 2070 FE
Vulkan results (3 games)
----------------------------------------------------------------
Vega 64 gives -2.41% fps compared to 2070 FE
Assumption 1 (stock vs stock):
Navi (225W) gives +11.64% fps compared to 2070 FE
Assumption 2 (stock vs stock):
Navi (225W) gives +7.92% fps compared to 2070 FE
Assumption 3 (stock vs stock):
Navi (225W) gives +0.47% fps compared to 2070 FE
It seems that the 225W Navi graphics card might compete favorably against the 2070 and might even perform better overall (especially in DX12 games). As far as how the results above reflect reality, there really is no way to know until the cards are benchmarked by 3rd party reviewers. In my analysis, even with 1.4xppw compared to Vega 64, the 225W Navi card edges out the 2070 FE by 2/4/9% in DX11/Vulkan/DX12 games.

interesting speculation

 

[nashathedog]

But at least moving in the right direction. All AMD need now is another mining boom lol.

But we don't.

 

[nashathedog]

Spoiler

That's how thick the VII's heatsink should have been.

 

[h4rm0ny]

So the speculation is that all the Navi cards will be 8GB? I was expecting memory capacity was going to start rising above 8GB by this point in time. Are games not starting to be able to make use of more, yet?

 

[nicktay2605]

Bit underwhelmed with what AMD have shown us on the GPU side of things. Imo GPU prices have been getting out of hand for some time now and that's without taking into account the effect mining had on them. I was really hoping AMD would come out with something that would rival the 20-series cards but undercut them, or bring something out at the same price that blew the 20-series cards away in terms of performance. I know pricing and performance are both unconfirmed at the moment, but imo a 2070 competitor at roughly the same price isn't going to give AMD the GPU market share it wants.