Yet another USB Dac Headphone Ask?

[Jenz]

Hi all,

Now that I have all my upgrades in place from OcUk I am looking to (I hope) improve my audio. However I am not sure what best to go for.

I have been reading through many threads here and am thinking that a USB Dac plus good headphones might be the answer but am completely confused on the “what to get” question.

I spend a lot of time listening to music stored on my Mac Mini currently via Bluetooth to either AirPods or Plantronics Backbeat Pro v1’s. I have the latter because I fly a lot and they are good for ANC on planes.

I was wondering if a USB Dac for my desk coupled with some better audio headphones would be a sizeable upgrade?

I would also probably go the whole hog and get some suitable desktop bookshelf speakers.

As to ideas I had been reading up on the SMSL AD18 which seemed well received, for headphones Beyer 990 or 770 or AKG 712pro seemed highly rated?

For bookshelves I was continually seeing Edifier and Audio Engine A2+ being mentioned on YouTube? Or Presonus Eris.

Am I one the right track? Thanks for your advice as always, Neil

 

[TheVoice]

I've had the SMSL ADL18 for about a year, I've been very happy with it. I posted about it recently on here as someone else was looking at it to replace a Topping VX1, you should be able to find it with a search.

 

[rids57]

All of the bookshelf speakers you mention are active and don't require an amp as they have one built in and just need plugging in to your mobo audio, external DAC or headphone amp with line-out or pre-amp functionality.

 

[aoaaron]

AKG 712 (amazing soundstage, beautifully controlled bass... this headphone has made me listen to my whole music collection again)

Topping D30 DAC (3x inpuits, the other contender is the Jd labs of DAC which lacks Dsd support, is slightly worse sound quality and 50% more in price, the D10 which is USB powered,has some build quality issues or the D50 which is nearly double the price for similar performance)

JD Labs Atom amp (no brained, best amp on the market under 300... and it costs 100)

(+/- a Fio Q1M2 for portable use)



I've been researching this for days (probably 100+ hours) and I think thats the best, most reliable combo currently on the market. If you don't mind trading in power for convienance, a DX3 Pro is viable but I bought one and it died within a day so I wouldn't trust them personally.

The Atom is phenomenal value for an amp and a must-buy. The topping D30 has a few really nice inputs (3 of them), mechanical switches for power on/off, which I like given I don't want it powered on all the time.

That setup will run you 400. If you wanted to save money, you could get a DAC/amp like the Fio K3 and an AKG 702. That would be about 180 and have similar sound quality and performance, just at less loud levels of volume. Another option is to see if you can find some Fidelio X2s which don't require a DAC or AMP. However I think they're very expensive on amazon at present. They also are just not in the same league as the AKGs when it comes to detail retrieval etc.

Finally your other option if you want an all in one devicew which looks nice is to get a JDS element. However this lacks upgradability,multiple inputs which for me is a deal breaker. I'd like the option of attaching my PS4 Pro (Via optical) + Gaming PC (via USB) to the DAC.

Using the D30 and the atom you should be able to have 3 sources attached to the D30, ANOTHER DAC to connect to the atom for a potential more 3 sources, the atom to output to 2 devices (a pair of speakers and headphones most likely right..).

The FiioQ1M2 is just a brilliant little device if you have apple products. Truth is I could probabably get buy with just that. It also has a very fun bass boost. Although since using these high quality headphones, I've realized I like nice bass over thumping bass as it just muddies the entire song and details.

 

[Jenz]

So I have decided to go Schiit Modi and Magni with AKG 712 Pro’s finally.

What would be a good set of speakers to go with this for the Magni preamp outputs? I keep going back and forth

 

[Marsman]

Depends on what you are looking to spend. Could either go for passive speakers plus maybe a small SMSL amp, or powered speakers.

 

[neil_g]

as above depends on budget. but yeah active monitors from the magni pre-out will work.

personally i run HS5 and are more than happy with them.

 

[Jenz]

Budget would be 250 pounds i think.

 

[neil_g]

270 will get you a pair of HS5 - https://www.andertons.co.uk/recordi...amaha-hs5-active-studio-monitor-(single-unit)

you'll also need RCA to XLR cables mind you.

 

[Jenz]

So just as I was going to go and have a stack of Schiit I ended up looking at the Atom.... that then cascaded into other DACs to support and I fell down a rabbit hole

Anyway arriving tomorrow are a JDS Atom and OL Dac (I know not a D30) but I wanted matching brand...

And some headphones... Akg 7XX, Hifiman 4xx and Massdrop Sennheiser 58X Jubilee as my first Massdrop purchase.

Hope to have quite a bit of fun with that lot

 

[TALON1973]

Should have gone for the 600 series sennheiser

 

[Jenz]

Haha I probably should have and may still do so once I've had some time with it all.

 

[Squid Vicious]

Good luck! I have the AKG 712 and Sennheiser 6XX and think I prefer the AKG for most both music and gaming (and they're more comfortable!)
Running them with schiit Magni/Modi 2.0 and love it all.

 

[ToTheMax]

Good luck! I have the AKG 712 and Sennheiser 6XX and think I prefer the AKG for most both music and gaming (and they're more comfortable!)
Running them with schiit Magni/Modi 2.0 and love it all.

Got a HD58X/712 Pro using an AE5 and I pretty much agree with you, the 712 pro sees the most usage.

 

[aoaaron]

Good luck! I have the AKG 712 and Sennheiser 6XX and think I prefer the AKG for most both music and gaming (and they're more comfortable!)
Running them with schiit Magni/Modi 2.0 and love it all.

I have 712s also and they are just ridiculous. The soundstage is just immense for gaming, and even for music they just transform it from being an MP3 file into you being in the room with whoever is playing the music. The way it creates a really weird feeling of immersion like the sound is everywhere aroung you is unlike any other headphone I've used.

The spread of the sound does sometimes mess with a few tracks, making them feel a little less punchy (for example if instruments are usually closer together in a track, they feel slightly farther apart but its so worth the trade off.

If I could figure out how to get music to play through my speakers AND my headphones (I'm sure its easy as my Vr headset lets me do this, then I think the combination of my subwoofer + the AKG 712's clearly ridiculously amazing directional audio would be perfect for me.


OP, I did thorough research on this and the AKG 712 + atom amp + whatever cheap dac you can get (I got a topping one) with the inputs you need has been really good. I wouldn't get a portable DAC/amp like the fiio ones for gaming because gaming requires significantly more amplification due to the way the sound is mastered (towards reference levels) compared to music which doesn't.

 

[Jenz]

I'm bringing this thread back to life as I now want some Speakers to go with my Atom and my JDS Labs OL Dac and wondering what to buy?

I see Edifier, Audioengine and Kanto all appearing popular but am looking for recommendations. Budget upto £300?

 

[ChrisLX200]

I bought these last year and must say they're very good for the price (£200).They have line in, optical, bluetooth and RCA inputs.

Steljes NS3 Powered Loud Speakers Stereo System Subwoofer British Design Compatible with iPhone through Bluetooth wirelessly(Lagoon Blue)

 

[Andy0102]

Posting in here rather than creating a new thread. Total noob to audio equipment.

I am thinking about buying some AKG K702 headphones for gaming. I dont really care too much about amazing sound quality (I'm just looking for better positional awareness whilst gaming) the headphones just need to be functional and not super quiet (which I gather can be the issue if you dont use something with enough power to boost the headphones?) I have an Asus Xonar DSX soundcard which I dont think will work, as it doesnt have a headphone amp. I run my PC through a Marantz PM6005 amp anyway which apparently does have a headphone amp built in so just wondering if this will be enough to power AKG K702 headphones? Another noob question, would I just plug the headphones straight into the headphone port on the front of my amp or might I need some additional cables/equipment to get those headphones up and running?

Thanks in advance for any help,

Andy

 

[EsaT]

I am thinking about buying some AKG K702 headphones for gaming. I dont really care too much about amazing sound quality (I'm just looking for better positional awareness whilst gaming) the headphones just need to be functional and not super quiet (which I gather can be the issue if you dont use something with enough power to boost the headphones?) I have an Asus Xonar DSX soundcard which I dont think will work, as it doesnt have a headphone amp. I run my PC through a Marantz PM6005 amp anyway which apparently does have a headphone amp built in so just wondering if this will be enough to power AKG K702 headphones?

Welcome aboard.

AKG K702 is among top choises, if you want highly accurate headphones for foot steps etc for competitive gaming.
But if you want balanced sound for normal/fun gaming you might be disappointed.
Their bass is neutral and it can easily sound shy/unfun, unless you crank up sound pressure to boost ear's sensitity for low frequencies.
(ear's frequency response changes depending on sound pressure level)
Beyerdynamic DT990 would be lot better balanced for that normal home gaming with good balanced between capabiltiy for details and "fun factor".

Also both are open ear cup design headphones, meaning they don't isolate any noises of environment.
So if you lack quiet environment, you need to look other headphones.


For gaming headphones alone don't give good immersion or even any sound positioning.
We hear in 3D, because shape of the head causes direction dependant differences to signal received by both ears from sound source.
Headphones can't ever create these binaural cues.
They need to be directly in signal driving headphones.
If game developers had paid even 1/10th of attention used for graphics to improving sounds, all games would have built in, customizable for listener's head shape, algorithm for producing this binaural sound.
But with extra help from Microsoft average games are in sounds in were graphics were in last millennium at start of 3D card revolution.

So for consistently getting good immersion with headphones, something else is needed to do necessary processing.
Most sound cards have had such HRTF algorithm for dozen years.
But Xonar DSX seems to be meant for speaker use and lacks that old Dolby Headphone Asus used for long.
Not that it would be that good for gaming despite of its hyped name.
In fact its tendency for bass bloat and heavy echo is bad and I can understand why many people have preferred not using it.


That Marantz is typical stereo amplifier and doesn't have actual headphone amplifier.
Instead it uses cheap&dirty solution of taking headphone output from speaker amplifier using resistors to drop current/voltage safe for headphones.
In this case through 330 ohm resistors. (page 32, grid E/F 13-14)
https://www.manualslib.com/download/1636558/Marantz-Pm6005.html
That makes for sucktastic output impedance.

AKG's have pretty flat impedance curve, so there won't be frequency response distortion.
But certainly there won't be any electric damping to keep driver's movement controlled.
Not sure how well AKGs behave in that situation, but output impedance being five times the headphone impedance, instead of other way like it should be, is heavy odds.
Once tried inline colume controller with Sennheiser HD595 to drop signal like that series resistor does and at some point sound quality just went into free fall.

 

[Andy0102]

Thank you very much Esa T for taking the time to reply (and even do some research into my amp by the looks of it.) What a welcome!

I have a quiet environment to game in so open back will be fine, I also like the idea of being able to hear a little bit of what is going on around me like if someone knocks at the door. Those DT990's are also in budget so very much an option. The cheap gaming headphones I dug out of a box recently to use are a horrible bassy mess and the faux leather is flaking off and sticking to the side of my head Definitely time for some half decent headphones!

So from what you are saying a new soundcard might be the way to go? Without buying some extra equipment my options are the two already mentioned (soundcard and Marantz amp) and a tiny little amp I have somewhere assuming I havent thrown it away which I'm pretty sure is a Gemtune SMSL SA-50. I would like to keep to around £100 if possible so perhaps I will settle on a set of headphones, test them out and then decide whether or not to get a new soundcard or a headphone amp if needed. I think I would only consider getting a headphone amp if I couldnt get loud enough sound after watching a video comparing HD 600's through an amp and then through an iphone, both sounded fine to my untrained ear.