Poll: Canadian Grand Prix 2019, Montréal - Race 7/21

[ajf]

Is there precedent for over turning in race time penalties?
It would be interesting if this indeed happens, as if he hadn't had it, would Hamilton have tried harder to get past?

 

[MartinPrince]

It was worse than that, he moaned that if he'd done anything else he couldn't have blocked Hamilton and he'd have got past. Well, yes, that's kinda of the point, dear boy.

You're quite right. I just replayed it again and heard him making that same inane point. Even the Sky commentators, in their desire to have a competitive race, didn't quite grasp this point and only grudgingly accepted that the stewards could have been right.

No matter how they want to spin it Vettel was not robbed by an unfair decision; he made a mistake (under pressure from Hamilton) and then came off resulting in a perfectly correctly penalty as his re-entry stopped Hamilton from getting past him. It really wasn't a difficult decision to make and while people are lambasting the stewards their focus should be on yet another driving error from Vettel that ultimately cost him the race.

 

[SDK^]

Regardless of watching it on my TV I have a motorsport hobby and can handle surface changes just fine thanks, and I don't get paid millions to do it.

Well I play football as a hobby and can score a penalty just fine, but could I do it in a Pro match with the pressure turned up - probably not. Maybe you should send your racing CV into Mattia Binotto

 

[Mr Jack]

Is there precedent for over turning in race time penalties?

You cannot appeal in-race time penalties under the rules.

It would be interesting if this indeed happens, as if he hadn't had it, would Hamilton have tried harder to get past?

Exactly, which is one of the reasons why. The other being if he'd been penalised prior to a pitstop, he'd have already had the time penalty and it could not be repealed.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Is it weird that I watched a clip of the incident on mute, during my lunch break and heard SHOUTY CROFTY in my head

I even checked the volume to make sure I didn’t just have it on low and was convinced I could hear him shouting.

Dear lord, he shouts at everything.

Well, apparently, it was important and they do have it: Vettel Steering Inputs Key to FIA penalty decision.

Exactly, they didn't just issue the penalty on a whim.

He forced Ricciardo to brake to avoid a collision. Vettel left Hamilton room too, pic here

The point I was making was that you can defend after making a mistake and you absolutely don’t have to give up the position

Once again posting the part that suits your argument. Fast forward 1-2 seconds. The door is well and truly closed and Hamilton had to brake hard on what would have been a foot to the floor acceleration zone on the racing line.

I also didn't realise that this had happened - https://www.racefans.net/2019/06/09...-for-forcing-hamilton-to-take-evasive-action/ - ouch! Salt and wound comes to mind.

Vettel was lucky that he was up against mature Hamilton because younger Hamilton would have been on in the inside and they both would have been out of the race. Unsafe entry after coming off the track shouldn’t be something you dismiss as just one of those things.

 

[abbviper]

The Stewards clearly made the correct decision, not sure what all the fuss is about.

 

[SoliD]

He forced Ricciardo to brake to avoid a collision. Vettel left Hamilton room too, pic here

No he hasn't, all 4 of Hamiltons wheels are over the white line and therefore off the track.

 

[MartinPrince]

The Stewards clearly made the correct decision, not sure what all the fuss is about.

Quite right. See here...

...The movement to straighten the wheel, which put the Ferrari into the path of Hamilton's Mercedes, is believed to be key to the unanimous decision by the stewards to punish Vettel.

The stewards also used an extra CCTV camera view of the incident, which was not broadcast on the international television feed, showing Vettel moving his head and looking in the mirrors to see Hamilton was during the moments when he was releasing the wheel to the right.

On board footage of the Vettel incident also shows his head turning towards the mirrors in the moment when he is drifting out - suggesting he knew where Hamilton was.

 

[SDK^]

The Stewards clearly made the correct decision, not sure what all the fuss is about.

As an F1 fan I would like the racing to be decided on the track and not in an office where a committee decides the outcome after referencing rule x.y.z. Just let them race and stop all of the silly interventions whenever a 'racing incident' occurs.

It's getting to the point where the race result might as well be decided with 1 timed lap.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Quite right. See here...

Its pretty damning.

Vettel’s problem is that he keeps making mistakes, not the stewards stealing wins. Vettel could have kept further to the left on the grass. This statement confirms that he dived onto the track to try and stay ahead and, as a result, got a snap of oversteer that meant he nearly put Hamiton in the wall. If he kept further left Hamilton would have passed him on the racing line. Penalty was the right result. Would have been less aggro if he had just let him by.

 

[Steampunk]

Hamilton never overtook in the race. So, why the win for him? Because of some virtual potential that he could have overtaken and kept the lead. Which is ridiculous.
The penalty was stupid.
They should have forced Sebastian to move to the second place, so Sebastian could have had the chance to take the position back.

But Hamilton would have overtaken if Vettel hadn't gained an advantage by leaving the track and then rejoining in an unsafe manner.

Bets on how long it will be before Vettel buckles under pressure, makes a mistake and gives the lead away?

 

[Steampunk]

I’m inclined to believe what people who have actually been there and done it think. Webber, Button, Andretti, Mansell, Wurz have all said it was daft.

Andretti makes a good point:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1137819492631928832

Drivers are all going to say that, because they all would have done the same thing as Vettel and hoped to get away with it like Vettel. I'm pretty sure they haven't seen all the telemetry and camera angles that the stewards did.

Don't forget these rules are there because the teams and drivers wanted them to prevent massive crashes that used to kill people every season.

 

[lucarocks92]

Its pretty damning.

Vettel’s problem is that he keeps making mistakes, not the stewards stealing wins. Vettel could have kept further to the left on the grass. This statement confirms that he dived onto the track to try and stay ahead and, as a result, got a snap of oversteer that meant he nearly put Hamiton in the wall. If he kept further left Hamilton would have passed him on the racing line. Penalty was the right result. Would have been less aggro if he had just let him by.

He has to keep the car straight, if you start turning on grass you will probably slide and lose the back end. He has to keep the car reasonably straight and can only turn once he gets the wheels on the tarmac. If you watch the onboard you can see his steering wheel snap turn left due to having no traction and he has to correct it with right steering

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqhX-ZzPhzo

 

[CaptainRAVE]

He has to keep the car straight, if you start turning on grass you will probably slide and lose the back end. He has to keep the car reasonably straight and can only turn once he gets the wheels on the tarmac. If you watch the onboard you can see his steering wheel snap turn left due to having no traction and he has to correct it with right steering

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqhX-ZzPhzo

Highly likely he couldn't turn on the grass, but the problem remains that once he gets on the tarmac he turns the other way. Whether to intentionally block Hamilton or correct his oversteer, who knows. Looking in his mirror to see exactly where Hamilton was hasn't helped his case. It also hasn't helped Vettel that Hamilton made no contact or lunge at him, he went off all on his own, then impeded Lewis as he rejoined. Why wasn't he just asked to give up the place? He at least would have had a chance to get it back.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Quite right. See here...

Case closed

 

[neckbeardthethird]

I'm pretty sure they haven't seen all the telemetry and camera angles that the stewards did.
.

Stewards do not have access to telemetry during the race, telemetry is only used to analyse when a decision is made post race.

 

[jonneymendoza]

Stewards do not have access to telemetry during the race, telemetry is only used to analyse when a decision is made post race.

Says who? Link??

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Stewards do not have access to telemetry during the race, telemetry is only used to analyse when a decision is made post race.

Since when?

 

[Steampunk]

Stewards do not have access to telemetry during the race, telemetry is only used to analyse when a decision is made post race.

Pretty sure the stewards have access to telemetry from the teams, and the teams get it in real time. It's needed to make decisions like this one.

 

[lucarocks92]

Highly likely he couldn't turn on the grass, but the problem remains that once he gets on the tarmac he turns the other way. Whether to intentionally block Hamilton or correct his oversteer, who knows. Looking in his mirror to see exactly where Hamilton was hasn't helped his case. It also hasn't helped Vettel that Hamilton made no contact or lunge at him, he went off all on his own, then impeded Lewis as he rejoined. Why wasn't he just asked to give up the place? He at least would have had a chance to get it back.

Yeah ultimately he is to blame for making the error, after last season I wanted to see him sacked because he's not world champion material at Ferrari.

I still think it was a very harsh punishment this time around and as much as I don't like him I thought it was the wrong decision in my opinion