Straight Pride - Right on!

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Soldato
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The thing is it doesn't have to lead to violence on their part. They could simply not turn up. The only reason they do it is to be confrontational. If one group are being violent just leave the police to deal with it.

So let them march and spread their hateful offensive message? Taking into account they often do this in areas that the people they are aiming their hateful rhetoric at live. Anti facists certainly used to turn up try and stop them doing exactly that. The fact the far right are marching there in the first place is confrontational. They don't march through Hampstead or Chelsea do they.



The far-right are barely registering on the richtascale right now and any marches or events are barely reaching triple digits and attended by the sad and lame.

A couple of years back I was tasked with reviewing the CPS cases involving arrests of far right protesters at a few events and had to advise discontinuece as it was obvious from CCTV that the far right had complied by the rules of peaceful protest and the initial consultation with police for pre-event planning. Antifa showed up and with zero provocation attacked the right with bricks, poles and broken bottles causing GBH injuries. My honest held belief is somebody would have been killed if it wasn't for 10-15 polish ultras fighting off dozens of Antifa who then ran away.

If Antifa hadn't have turned up then it would have been an embarrassing non-event like what was seen by Britain First rally's.

Why did the police/security services recently say that the extreme right wing are second only to extremist Islamists in the threat to the public? Again I'm not defending violence. Anyone that instigates violence should be identified and arrested.
 
Caporegime
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So let them march and spread their hateful offensive message? Taking into account they often do this in areas that the people they are aiming their hateful rhetoric at live. Anti facists certainly used to turn up try and stop them doing exactly that. The fact the far right are marching there in the first place is confrontational. They don't march through Hampstead or Chelsea do they.

So what? They're not violent. Let people be grown ups and ignore them. Doesn't give someone else the right to assault them.
 
Associate
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Why did the police/security services recently say that the extreme right wing are second only to extremist Islamists in the threat to the public? Again I'm not defending violence. Anyone that instigates violence should be identified and arrested.

That was a direct result of the National Action group and the murder of Jo Cox and the risk of online radicalisation.

Other than the animal rights groups there has not been any left wing plots to murder or bomb people in the UK. It's a different story abroad.
 
Caporegime
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Erm. They were made a marginal group by the rest of society, and even though technically they have equal rights under the law they're still persecuted for their sexuality, see the recent case of the lesbian couple being beaten for refusing to kiss on a London bus..
isolated incident not the norm...

look at all the videos on YT about straight pride, especially any american TV programmes it's ridiculous how they mock straight pride, suggest floats that are insulting and act as if it's some attack on the LGBT to express your self as a straight man.
if it was the other way around arrests would be made and people fired for gay hate speech.

In this day and age do we even need pride? LGBT are accepted by the majority as being normal and not outcasts ostracised from society.

How many straight people fought for LGBT rights? but we can't have one day as a straight pride event even though they can have a whole month?

What happened to equal rights and discimination? it doesnt exist for the white man, the straight man, the family man.

you have to be a minority these days ***?!?!?!!?


Also they said anyone can come to straight pride whether you are straight or not.
but I guess LGBT can't show the same pride towards straight people. the same straight people who are happy for them to feel comfortable and welcomed in society.
 
Soldato
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isolated incident not the norm...

look at all the videos on YT about straight pride, especially any american TV programmes it's ridiculous how they mock straight pride, suggest floats that are insulting and act as if it's some attack on the LGBT to express your self as a straight man.
if it was the other way around arrests would be made and people fired for gay hate speech.

In this day and age do we even need pride? LGBT are accepted by the majority as being normal and not outcasts ostracised from society.

How many straight people fought for LGBT rights? but we can't have one day as a straight pride event even though they can have a whole month?

What happened to equal rights and discimination? it doesnt exist for the white man, the straight man, the family man.

you have to be a minority these days ***?!?!?!!?


Also they said anyone can come to straight pride whether you are straight or not.
but I guess LGBT can't show the same pride towards straight people. the same straight people who are happy for them to feel comfortable and welcomed in society.

Sorry but that is utter tosh. I'm white, straight, middle aged, although I don't have kids and I can't ever remember being discriminated against other than perhaps not being allowed in the ladies pond on Hampstead Heath.
 
Caporegime
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Sorry but that is utter tosh. I'm white, straight, middle aged, although I don't have kids and I can't ever remember being discriminated against other than perhaps not being allowed in the ladies pond on Hampstead Heath.
I was reffering more towards YT being full of videos like this openly mocking straight people.
done the other way around it wouldn't be acceptable.

boston not wanting to have the straight pride until they were threatened with equal rights and court, boston not wanting to hoist the straight pride flag but they have the gay pride flag.

The whole thing is basically a 4chan troll anyway, but the reactions to it that are very serious are way over the top.
It was not themed as an attack on anyone and they said LGBT people are welcome to come.

The fact that some people are offended by the idea of a straight pride is ridiculous
 
Man of Honour
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Being straight has never been something to be ashamed of, so need to counter it with pride.

You argue that the only options are pride at being born into the "right" biological group or shame at being born into the "right" biological group. No other possibilties, just pride or shame. So if you think that heterosexual people shouldn't be proud of being heterosexual, you think that they should be ashamed of being heterosexual.

Like all irrationally prejudiced people trying to rationalise their double standards, your arguments fail. You can't make an irrational position rational. You can erect a flimsy facade of fake rationality, but it doesn't work. You're not even internally consistent. For example, are you proud or ashamed of the colour of your hair? The length of your fingers? Your fingerprints? Etc.
 
Caporegime
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You argue that the only options are pride at being born into the "right" biological group or shame at being born into the "right" biological group. No other possibilties, just pride or shame. So if you think that heterosexual people shouldn't be proud of being heterosexual, you think that they should be ashamed of being heterosexual.

Like all irrationally prejudiced people trying to rationalise their double standards, your arguments fail. You can't make an irrational position rational. You can erect a flimsy facade of fake rationality, but it doesn't work. You're not even internally consistent. For example, are you proud or ashamed of the colour of your hair? The length of your fingers? Your fingerprints? Etc.

No, you seem to be arguing that angle, my take is that I have no need to be proud or ashamed of being straight as I have never been made to feel ashamed or proud of being straight. The same can't be said for the vast majority of gay people. I never had to worry about how my parents would react to my sexuality, or my friends, or a random walking by, and I can't even fathom what that must be like.

Maybe you will get it (but I doubt it, you have quite firmly made your mind up on your interpretation being the only interpretation) if I use a very vaguely similar analogy.

In the 80s/90s, being a nerd/geek had a bit of social stigma attached to it, such people would get bullied and made fun of. Then people started to 'own it', flying their geek 'flag' high and proud, not implying 'I am a geek, you are not, I am better than you", but 'I am a geek, and I won't feel bad about it, shout out to my other geeks, I see your Firefly t-shirt bro <3'.

Anyone thinking it is about dominance or superiority is just projecting.
 
Soldato
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In the 80s/90s, being a nerd/geek had a bit of social stigma attached to it, such people would get bullied and made fun of. Then people started to 'own it', flying their geek 'flag' high and proud, not implying 'I am a geek, you are not, I am better than you", but 'I am a geek, and I won't feel bad about it, shout out to my other geeks, I see your Firefly t-shirt bro <3'.

Anyone thinking it is about dominance or superiority is just projecting.

Nail on the head.
 
Man of Honour
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No, you seem to be arguing that angle, my take is that I have no need to be proud or ashamed of being straight as I have never been made to feel ashamed or proud of being straight. The same can't be said for the vast majority of gay people. I never had to worry about how my parents would react to my sexuality, or my friends, or a random walking by, and I can't even fathom what that must be like.

Maybe you will get it (but I doubt it, you have quite firmly made your mind up on your interpretation being the only interpretation) if I use a very vaguely similar analogy.

In the 80s/90s, being a nerd/geek had a bit of social stigma attached to it, such people would get bullied and made fun of. Then people started to 'own it', flying their geek 'flag' high and proud, not implying 'I am a geek, you are not, I am better than you", but 'I am a geek, and I won't feel bad about it, shout out to my other geeks, I see your Firefly t-shirt bro <3'.

Anyone thinking it is about dominance or superiority is just projecting.

No, they're being fair rather than applying radically different standards to different biological groups (which is what you're doing). That's a textbook example of irrational prejudice.

If people were talking about not being ashamed of X, you'd have a point. But they're not and you don't.

There's no need for interpretation - you are explicitly saying that people should be proud of being gay and ashamed of being straight (since you're arguing that the only possible positions are shame and pride and straight people must not be proud). Your geek analogy is not similar for two crucial reasons. Firstly, "geek" is not a biological group. Secondly, and most importantly, there isn't a powerful geek pride ideology.
 
Caporegime
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There's no need for interpretation - you are explicitly saying that people should be proud of being gay and ashamed of being straight (since you're arguing that the only possible positions are shame and pride and straight people must not be proud).

Oh lord. No I am not, you are projecting or tying to be 'smart' by making up my position based on pedantry and semantics. (See, I can use big words too, oooooh!).

I have never said that there are 2 binary options, either being proud or being ashamed, that is ridiculous. Funnily enough, much like sexuality, there are many shades and variations of grey, not just your seemingly checkerboard view of things.

I have never been told "You are white, good on you!" and I have never been told "You are white, you are horrible and should be ashamed!". I have never had to worry about touching or kissing my wife in public, I never had to fear what my parents reactions would be when I introduced them to my girlfriend. I have no reason to be proud or ashamed for who I am.

My gay friends have had verbal abuse hurled at them, physical violence, told they are 'not natural', 'sick', or even 'paedos' (wtf?) just because they are attracted to who they are attracted to. They have been made to feel bad and shamed about who they are their entire lives, and 'Pride' is about rebalancing that, not about 'winning' but about being allowed to just exist without having to hide who you are.
 
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Soldato
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Oh lord. No I am not, you are projecting or tying to be 'smart' by making up my position based on pedantry and semantics. (See, I can use big words too, oooooh!).

I have never said that their are 2 binary options, either being proud or being ashamed, that is ridiculous. Funnily enough, much like sexuality, there are many shades and variations of grey, not just you seemingly checkboard view of things.

I have never been told "You are white, good on you!" and I have never been told "You are white, you are horrible and should be ashamed!". I have never had to worry about touching or kissing my wife in public, I never had to fear what my parents reactions would be when I introduced them to my girlfriend. I have no reason to be proud or ashamed for who I am.

My gay friends have had verbal abuse hurled at them, physical violence, told they are 'not natural', 'sick', or even 'paedos' (wtf?) just because they are attracted to who they are attracted to. They have been made to feel bad and shamed about who they are their entire lives, and 'Pride' is about rebalancing that, not about 'winning' but about being allowed to just exist without having to hide who you are.

I honestly think you're wasting your time. Some people just don't want to get it.
 
Man of Honour
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To give a bit of perspective my nephews husband is from the US and he can't believe how accepting and tolerent most people in the UK are over them being in a relationship.

His parents don't accept him being gay and in the US military it was a case of don't ask, don't tell.
 
Soldato
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I honestly think you're wasting your time. Some people just don't want to get it.

I am learning something from krooton's arguments. Its not just about Angillion

Its hard to learn something when you cannot feel certain things, like shame for example.

The longer this argument goes around in circles the higher the chance i will be able to mimic either of them, which is something i need.
 
Soldato
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Quite a few people in this thread simply "don't get it".

Gay Pride isn't so much about celebrating homosexuality as it is about fighting bigotry and fighting for equality. Never in history have straight people had to fight for their right to be considered equal and never will we need to. However, homosexuals are still discriminated against today. Therefore there is a need for there to be a movement such as pride, to fight for the rights of those minorities. Until there is equality, there will always be a positive movement.

As for "pushing it on young people in school is wrong"... Well, if you still don't think sexuality education in school is needed, after a bunch of teenagers beat up these poor girls, then you're simply an idiot.

hpXY2Ts.jpg
 
Caporegime
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Quite a few people in this thread simply "don't get it".

Gay Pride isn't so much about celebrating homosexuality as it is about fighting bigotry and fighting for equality. Never in history have straight people had to fight for their right to be considered equal and never will we need to. However, homosexuals are still discriminated against today. Therefore there is a need for there to be a movement such as pride, to fight for the rights of those minorities. Until there is equality, there will always be a positive movement.

As for "pushing it on young people in school is wrong"... Well, if you still don't think sexuality education in school is needed, after a bunch of teenagers beat up these poor girls, then you're simply an idiot.

hpXY2Ts.jpg

I think a lot of them do get it, but they are simply a bigot.
 
Soldato
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I have never been told "You are white, good on you!" and I have never been told "You are white, you are horrible and should be ashamed!". I have never had to worry about touching or kissing my wife in public, I never had to fear what my parents reactions would be when I introduced them to my girlfriend. I have no reason to be proud or ashamed for who I am.

My gay friends have had verbal abuse hurled at them, physical violence, told they are 'not natural', 'sick', or even 'paedos' (wtf?) just because they are attracted to who they are attracted to. They have been made to feel bad and shamed about who they are their entire lives, and 'Pride' is about rebalancing that, not about 'winning' but about being allowed to just exist without having to hide who you are.
Yup ^
 
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