** The AMD Navi Thread **

[D.P.]

Not sure how it works but based on this write up it would seem they is more to it than a basic filter.

Known as Radeon Image Sharpening, AMD’s solution is an intelligent sharpening technology that provides a lift in the visual quality of a game without a dip in performance. The effect takes a look at the high contrast parts of any given scene in a game and artificially draws out more detail. AMD says this sharpening of textures makes 1080p look close to 1440p when upscaled on a higher resolution monitor.

AMD showed a screenshot from a game and highlighted how Radeon Image Sharpening pulled out crisper details in the shadowy rocks from the darker aspects of an image without interrupting any anti-aliasing softening happening near the light source.

Unlike DLSS, which must be implemented on a game-by-game basis, Radeon Image Sharpening is a simple switch. According to AMD, it just works.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/amd-radeon-image-sharpening-dlss-ray-tracing-e3-2019/

So it seems there is some kind of selective filter goes on so it isn't a blank sharpening kernel over the whole frame. Nvidi'as sharpening likely doens't do that but that would just be a minor driver release; use a contrast filter to produce a salience map to weight the USM. By sharpening high contrast areas you can avoid some artifacts in low contrast areas and potentially increase performance. That is all completely standard image processing.



But this just reinforces that AMD is not doing any kind of upscaling at all, simply sharpening. So DLSS is still an entirely different technology.
Maybe Nvidia will put out a new driver with some sharpening improvements

 

[shankly1985]

So it seems there is some kind of selective filter goes on so it isn't a blank sharpening kernel over the whole frame. Nvidi'as sharpening likely doens't do that but that would just be a minor driver release; use a contrast filter to produce a salience map to weight the USM. By sharpening high contrast areas you can avoid some artifacts in low contrast areas and potentially increase performance. That is all completely standard image processing.



But this just reinforces that AMD is not doing any kind of upscaling at all, simply sharpening. So DLSS is still an entirely different technology.
Maybe Nvidia will put out a new driver with some sharpening improvements

Either way, whether it's the same or not doesn't matter. The only thing that the user wants does this make 1440p look 4k and so far the answer seems to be Yes! While getting the same performance from 1440p.
Its locked to Navi and also only so far supports DX12 and Vulkan so they is defo more to this than one would believe.

 

[LeMson]

Why didn't they know the prices of the cards as they were announced during the event....

Because the race is to get views, rather than informed chat with all the facts. Not sure what Steve was on in this video saying navi could be priced $50 higher than the 2070 and sell well, u wot m8?

 

[shankly1985]

Because the race is to get views, rather than informed chat with all the facts. Not sure what Steve was on in this video saying navi could be priced $50 higher than the 2070 and sell well, u wot m8?

While most of the time I would agree, youtube put out content to get views first but this isn't the case here if you listen to the video they talk about the event for the press that was on Sunday behind closed doors. Some information from that event is allowed to be talked about like AMD talking about Ray tracing going forward.

 

[D.P.]

Either way, whether it's the same or not doesn't matter. The only thing that the user wants does this make 1440p look 4k and so far the answer seems to be Yes! While getting the same performance from 1440p.
Its locked to Navi and also only so far supports DX12 and Vulkan so they is defo more to this than one would believe.

No, I don;t think you understand. It is only sharpening the image, it isn't upscaling the image to make 1440p look like 4K, it is increasing edge contrast that can give an impression of increased sharpness, but sharpness is not resolution and there is no increase in image detail. The image detail is what s important to display on a large 4K screen.

 

[Eurofighter]

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14528/amd-announces-radeon-rx-5700-xt-rx-5700-series

No hdmi 2.1

 

[shankly1985]

No, I don;t think you understand. It is only sharpening the image, it isn't upscaling the image to make 1440p look like 4K, it is increasing edge contrast that can give an impression of increased sharpness, but sharpness is not resolution and there is no increase in image detail. The image detail is what s important to display on a large 4K screen.

Don't shoot the messenger. Like I said before we will just need to wait and see just how good this looks when the driver and GPU releases July 7th

AMD had both solutions running Battlefield V side-by-side — the Nvidia system at 4K with ray tracing and DLSS on, and the AMD system with Radeon Image Sharpening in 1440p. The result was very similar, with the AMD system looking close to 4K thanks to the added sharpness of RIS. And, because it was still technically playing at 1440p, Battlefield V hit framerates upward of 90 FPS.

 

[LeMson]

While most of the time I would agree, youtube put out content to get views first but this isn't the case here if you listen to the video they talk about the event for the press that was on Sunday behind closed doors. Some information from that event is allowed to be talked about like AMD talking about Ray tracing going forward.

Still a race to give you news without the whole facts of the launch which is what hyper asked about

 

[hyperseven]

Still a race to give you news without the whole facts of the launch which is what hyper asked about

+10 Shill points for Steve.

The facts have be known for a while now. How hard would it have been to insert a 'since filming' slide at the beginning?

 

[shankly1985]

Improvements to streaming and recording with Navi.

 

[ltron]

Improvements to streaming and recording with Navi.

This is very welcome, I just need high end Navi at a reasonable price in order to justify buying it.

 

[shankly1985]

This is very welcome, I just need high end Navi at a reasonable price in order to justify buying it.

Agreed.

 

[ralv585]

Personally I look to get a 100% increase in performance when I upgrade, and as such I would probably hold on to your 980ti a bit longer of you can (I think the only card that can 100% improve your 980ti is maybe a 2080ti and even that may be close. Nothing I have seen from AMD qualifies by that metric afaik. That said worth is subjective and some people upgrade even for a 20% improvement

I don't want to spend 2080ti money lol

Ideally looking for something in the £350 range max for decent improvement over my 980ti, but I guess that won't be the case for a couple of years

 

[D.P.]

Don't shoot the messenger. Like I said before we will just need to wait and see just how good this looks when the driver and GPU releases July 7th

AMD had both solutions running Battlefield V side-by-side — the Nvidia system at 4K with ray tracing and DLSS on, and the AMD system with Radeon Image Sharpening in 1440p. The result was very similar, with the AMD system looking close to 4K thanks to the added sharpness of RIS. And, because it was still technically playing at 1440p, Battlefield V hit framerates upward of 90 FPS.

I'm not trying to shoot the messenger, just point out that running a sharpening filter is not the same as increasing resolution and not comparable to what DLSS does.

The comparison should be with Nvidi's existing sharpening filter that has been in drivers for a couple of years. Nvidia's sharpening will have the same apparent effect of making a 1440p look like something higher in detail, but that isn't what DLSS is trying to do. DLSS is a whole lot more, and a whole lot smarter by modeling statistical distributions of patterns within the image data to provide an intelligent interpolation between existing pixels. Whether it works well or not is a separate debate.


If AMD's sharpening is better that Nvidia;s sharpening then the onus will be on Nvidias to add some features to the drivers. But make no mistake, this isn;t an answer to Nvidia's DLSS however much AMD try to market as that, and it is certainly nothing new. Nvidia has supported image sharpening for nearly 2years.

 

[Poneros]

Not sure how it works but based on this write up it would seem they is more to it than a basic filter.

Known as Radeon Image Sharpening, AMD’s solution is an intelligent sharpening technology that provides a lift in the visual quality of a game without a dip in performance. The effect takes a look at the high contrast parts of any given scene in a game and artificially draws out more detail. AMD says this sharpening of textures makes 1080p look close to 1440p when upscaled on a higher resolution monitor.

AMD showed a screenshot from a game and highlighted how Radeon Image Sharpening pulled out crisper details in the shadowy rocks from the darker aspects of an image without interrupting any anti-aliasing softening happening near the light source.

Unlike DLSS, which must be implemented on a game-by-game basis, Radeon Image Sharpening is a simple switch. According to AMD, it just works.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/amd-radeon-image-sharpening-dlss-ray-tracing-e3-2019/

I'm willing to bet good money it will not be visually distinguishable from adaptive/luma-sharpen with reshade

 

[bigmike20vt]

I don't want to spend 2080ti money lol

Ideally looking for something in the £350 range max for decent improvement over my 980ti, but I guess that won't be the case for a couple of years

Indeed which is why I would wait. The 980ti is a capable card. Good enough for QHD with mostly full details and fine for VR as well (unless you have a pimax or index on order).
If I had your card I would be waiting either for the full fat Navi coming next year with raytracing or proper next gen RTX cards from Nvidia.
Nothing excites me personally from these Navi cards so far. IF you literally have to buy this gen maybe a "super" RTX 2070 will be on budget if not then look for a clearence of the "old" rtx2070

 

[shankly1985]

I'm willing to bet good money it will not be visually distinguishable from adaptive/luma-sharpen with reshade

Maybe not but its nice to have it all in one software "Drivers" I not used Reshade for a very long time or whatever it was called before when people were getting banned wrongly on CSGO I stopped using it.

 

[shankly1985]

I'm not trying to shoot the messenger, just point out that running a sharpening filter is not the same as increasing resolution and not comparable to what DLSS does.

The comparison should be with Nvidi's existing sharpening filter that has been in drivers for a couple of years. Nvidia's sharpening will have the same apparent effect of making a 1440p look like something higher in detail, but that isn't what DLSS is trying to do. DLSS is a whole lot more, and a whole lot smarter by modeling statistical distributions of patterns within the image data to provide an intelligent interpolation between existing pixels. Whether it works well or not is a separate debate.


If AMD's sharpening is better that Nvidia;s sharpening then the onus will be on Nvidias to add some features to the drivers. But make no mistake, this isn;t an answer to Nvidia's DLSS however much AMD try to market as that, and it is certainly nothing new. Nvidia has supported image sharpening for nearly 2years.

Am not saying AMDs sharpening is DLSS but my point still stands if it creates the same outcome making 1440p look like 4k while keeping the performance of 1440p then its a simple Win, win. It doesn't matter if it's not using AI to achieve this.
AMD seems confident enough about this putting it on the show floor again will just need to wait and see what the community thinks when it's released.

 

[Curlyriff]

I'm willing to bet good money it will not be visually distinguishable from adaptive/luma-sharpen with reshade

Probably not, however the adaptive sharpen in reshade often has a big hit on frames. In NMS with it on in 1440p I was seeing a 10fps hit for it. There are 3 other sharpening profiles that do pretty close with much smaller hit though. Just thought would say as it not sure if/what performance hit AMD driver version would cause.

 

[Zeed]

I don't want to spend 2080ti money lol

Ideally looking for something in the £350 range max for decent improvement over my 980ti, but I guess that won't be the case for a couple of years

Nope I just made my mates aware that without dropping 600+ quid they got no pugrades in next 1-2 years


Some fun photos from my polish forums