Out with the old... but not all of them??

Associate
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Ok so my current PC is about 10 years old with a couple of upgrades along the way and consists of:

Asus Maximus Formula mobo(the original one!)
Core 2 Extreme QX9770 PSU
Inno3D GTX 560ti GPU
4gb OCZ Platinum memory
Antec P182 SE Case
Antec NEO HE 650w PSU
1 Intel SSD and some HDD.

Money is tight but I'm really wanting to upgrade sooner rather than later so...

I know I need to replace the main guts Mobo/CPU/Memory and I can reuse the drives for the time being but will my Case take a Z390 mobo? It's an ATX case but i'm just wonering if I/O shields or anything else are any different etc. The case fans are noisy so maybe to make it quieter I can get newer versions for it.

Would this old PSU be good enough to power these new components? Would it even work with a Z390? It has a 24-pin main power connector (that is adaptable to 20-pin for legacy motherboards), an ATX12V connector, an EPS12V connector, and a 6+2 PCIe power connector?

My build shopping list at the moment looks something like this:

Intel i5 9600k processor
Be Quiet! Shadow Rock Slim CPU Cooler
Z390 motherboard (struggling to decide on this one!)
Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4 3000 MHz

Then if the answers to my questions above are bad:

Be Quiet! 601 Case
Be Quiet! Straight Power 11 650W ATX

I'm holding out for a new GPU when I have some more £'s so with a Z390 motherboard and an i5 9600k would I be better off using onboard graphics for now or would the GTX 560ti be worth putting in there?

I'll do my best to stretch to a RTX 2060 as a minimum when I can.

All comments and suggestions greatfully received, cheers.
 
Man of Honour
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16,176
what's your budget?
and you're probably better off waiting for a few weeks.
new cpu and gpu product launches literally round the corner.
so you get better bang/buck or better raw performance for your hard earned cash.

no brainer really...unless you need to buy now now.
 
Associate
OP
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what's your budget?
and you're probably better off waiting for a few weeks.
new cpu and gpu product launches literally round the corner.
so you get better bang/buck or better raw performance for your hard earned cash.

no brainer really...unless you need to buy now now.

Yeah I don't mind waiting if prices are going to drop but the spec won't alter much, i'll just save a few quid I guess.

At present I can get the main bits as follows:

Intel i5 9600k processor - £228.00
Be Quiet! Shadow Rock Slim CPU Cooler - £36.88
Z390 motherboard (struggling to decide on this one!) - Unknown as I'm not sure if I need a £100 board or a £250 board!
Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4 3000 MHz - £68.99

So the other factors are what's holding me back.
 
Man of Honour
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if you don't need intel (why would you?)
ryzen 3600/x will be the much better buy.

same with the gpus, apparently the current rtx lineup will get a price drop and the rtx super lineup will slot in at the current price points
so better bang/buck or better raw performance
 
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I've always been Intel that's the only reason. I really know very little about AMD so what's the sort of equivalent to a Z390 motherboard and i5 9600k then?

Yes I've spotted the new Super cards are coming. Hence holding out on that for now.
 
Soldato
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Welcome aboard.

For insides it's better wait for Zen2 Ryzens, against which Intel doesn't really have anything, except higher power consumption and whole lots of vulnerabilities needing security patches.
Just Google for Meltdown, Spectre, Spoiler, Fallout, RIDL, Zombieload... just to name those I can remember
New Navi graphics cards should also bring more competition into graphics card.

Any thoughts on my Case and PSU questions?
If you like your case, it's certainly reusable for saving money.
Though those slats in front of dust filters would need modding to decrease their very significant airflow impedance:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article741-page3.html
I mean they're behind door, so those are really needed only for holding filters in their place.

Also would remove any detachable obstructions between "lower and upper chambers".
That design made for ancient garbage PSUs was obsolete in few years after its first introduction.
With high efficiency PSUs only thing it archieves is limiting half of intake airflow for parts producing in practise less than 10% PC's of heat output.
If you have Dremel or similar (or access to such) would actually do some cutting to improve airflow.


Also replace case fans with good pressure capability Arctic P12 fans:
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/search?sSearch=arctic+p12

Though only USB2 ports can surely be serious handicap for USB sticks, card readers and external drives.
There are some 5.25" front panels with newer ports, but not much anymore at least in OcUK's stock.
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/cases-and-modding/modding/front-bay-devices?sPage=1&sSort=3


Neo HE is seriously old design and now also well used.
So wouldn't connect new parts into it.

Bitfenix Formula is what I would recommend as starting level for not-lowest end gaming PC.
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/search?sSearch=bitfenix+Formula
Seasonic Focus Plus Gold is next level with constantly good pricing for 10 year warranty modular PSU.
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/search?sSearch=seasonic+focus+gold


Be Quiet! Shadow Rock Slim CPU Cooler - £36.88
Wouldn't really pay much more than £35 from that level cooler.
There's very high end cooler only step behind the best for £43.
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/scythe-scmg-5100-mugen-5-rev.b-cpu-cooler-hs-046-sy.html
 
Associate
OP
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Welcome aboard.

For insides it's better wait for Zen2 Ryzens, against which Intel doesn't really have anything, except higher power consumption and whole lots of vulnerabilities needing security patches.
Just Google for Meltdown, Spectre, Spoiler, Fallout, RIDL, Zombieload... just to name those I can remember
New Navi graphics cards should also bring more competition into graphics card.

If you like your case, it's certainly reusable for saving money.
Though those slats in front of dust filters would need modding to decrease their very significant airflow impedance:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article741-page3.html
I mean they're behind door, so those are really needed only for holding filters in their place.

Also would remove any detachable obstructions between "lower and upper chambers".
That design made for ancient garbage PSUs was obsolete in few years after its first introduction.
With high efficiency PSUs only thing it archieves is limiting half of intake airflow for parts producing in practise less than 10% PC's of heat output.
If you have Dremel or similar (or access to such) would actually do some cutting to improve airflow.


Also replace case fans with good pressure capability Arctic P12 fans:
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/search?sSearch=arctic+p12

Though only USB2 ports can surely be serious handicap for USB sticks, card readers and external drives.
There are some 5.25" front panels with newer ports, but not much anymore at least in OcUK's stock.
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/cases-and-modding/modding/front-bay-devices?sPage=1&sSort=3


Neo HE is seriously old design and now also well used.
So wouldn't connect new parts into it.

Bitfenix Formula is what I would recommend as starting level for not-lowest end gaming PC.
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/search?sSearch=bitfenix+Formula
Seasonic Focus Plus Gold is next level with constantly good pricing for 10 year warranty modular PSU.
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/search?sSearch=seasonic+focus+gold


Wouldn't really pay much more than £35 from that level cooler.
There's very high end cooler only step behind the best for £43.
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/scythe-scmg-5100-mugen-5-rev.b-cpu-cooler-hs-046-sy.html

Thanks for the recommendations. Are the various parts you suggest pretty quiet?
 
Soldato
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Thanks for the recommendations. Are the various parts you suggest pretty quiet?
Just like any other 1800rpm fan Arctic P12 certainly isn't quiet at full. (though noise profile should be smooth)
But it's very controllable with ridiculously low 2.8V start up voltage for non-PWM version and hence should be adjustable at least down to 500rpm.
And PWM-version goes down to 200rpm and supports also 0rpm when PWM signal is 0%.

Mugen 5's fan again is 1200rpm at full tilt.
Many coolers simply have high speed fans to squeeze more cooling performance from small/average size heatsink at the expense of noise.
Mugen 5 goes for speed&noise limited fan with beefy high performance heatsink.
(swapping fan to Arctic P12 would likely improve cooling per noise further)

All (good) modern PSUs have temperature controlled fans.
Most higher end PSU's like Seasonic Focus Plus have also mode, in which fan is stopped completely, when PSU's internal temperature is low enough.


For minimizing noise down that case could also use modding I suggested.
If case airflow is inadequate that rises its internal temperature, which again leads to higher speed of CPU and GPU cooler fans.
Also bigger restrictions cause case fans to make more noise per airflow.
So lower restrictions in air intakes allows lower noise while improving cooling.


Ooh this saves me £200 in the short term then. Cheers
Wouldn't risk new parts with decade old PSU.
It might fail some time in future and no matter how good PSU, there's always risk for PC parts in that.
At least in lowered life span, if ripple goes out of control because of worn capacitors.
 
Associate
OP
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I'm holding out for a new GPU when I have some more £'s so with a Z390 motherboard and an i5 9600k would I be better off using onboard graphics for now or would my current GTX 560ti be worth putting in there?
 
Soldato
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If goal is gaming for many years without changes, buying 6 core/6 thread CPU now is like you had bought dual core instead of that quad decade ago.
Myself wouldn't pay more than £150 from such CPU on dead end upgrade path platform.
And really would want upgrade path giving platform if you're stuck with £200 budget for CPU right now.
(Intel's vision of upgrade path is making consumer buy new motherboards for rebrandings of same CPU)

I mean next-gen consoles are coming with Zen2 based 8 core/16 thread CPU.
(don't see any slightest sense in disabling SMT in them)
That's basically the biggest generational CPU power jump ever in consoles.
At that poing CPU requirements of multiplatter games are going to jump.
Game developers must be taking cortisone cream baths to help with itch of waiting to get that hardware into their hands.
 
Associate
OP
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If goal is gaming for many years without changes, buying 6 core/6 thread CPU now is like you had bought dual core instead of that quad decade ago.
Myself wouldn't pay more than £150 from such CPU on dead end upgrade path platform.
And really would want upgrade path giving platform if you're stuck with £200 budget for CPU right now.
(Intel's vision of upgrade path is making consumer buy new motherboards for rebrandings of same CPU)

I mean next-gen consoles are coming with Zen2 based 8 core/16 thread CPU.
(don't see any slightest sense in disabling SMT in them)
That's basically the biggest generational CPU power jump ever in consoles.
At that poing CPU requirements of multiplatter games are going to jump.
Game developers must be taking cortisone cream baths to help with itch of waiting to get that hardware into their hands.

Well I did buy a Core 2 Duo originally, then a few years later bought the Core 2 Extreme cheaper. So this is kind of my logic as I could get an i5 now, then the last of the breed i9 or whatever exists a few years down the line?

If I went down the AMD route then it looks like the 2700x would be the goto chip with the AM4 slot, then I could jump into the last of breed later on too? But at least I'd have 8 core / 16 threads for now?

The new 3000 chips are going to need a new chipset aren't they? Someone mentioned 570x?
 
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Associate
OP
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I've just been on user benchmarks and compared the i5 9600k to the Ryzen 2700x and the AMD chip is slower? I have the option of jumping to an i9 or whatever is better a few years down the line so I'm a bit confused over the whole wait for the Ryzen 3000 thing.
 
Soldato
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then the last of the breed i9 or whatever exists a few years down the line?

If I went down the AMD route then it looks like the 2700x would be the goto chip with the AM4 slot, then I could jump into the last of breed later on too? But at least I'd have 8 core / 16 threads for now?

The new 3000 chips are going to need a new chipset aren't they? Someone mentioned 570x?
There won't be anything better for Intel platform in few years.
While AMD already has 16 core/32 thread 3950X Ryzen announced for release in fall, Intel's 10 core rebranding of Skylake likely needs new mobo:
https://www.tweaktown.com/news/65857/intel-comet-lake-cpus-require-new-socket-mobo/index.html

And who knows how many more performance nibbling security patches these four year old 6th gen Skylake architecture rebrandings are going to need.
Even whole Intel's HyperThreading is under pressure for disabling it and one security aimed OS disabled it last year.
Intel simply became super arrogant/condescing and greedy after AMD's "Faildozer".
Like rebranded CPUs needing new mobos being completely artificial limitation for screwing consumers to butt:
https://www.techpowerup.com/250109/...0-ghz-overclock-on-a-z170-chipset-motherboard


When buying new PC after this long wait, just forget current CPU situation and wait three more weeks for Zen2 Ryzens.
If shops don't gouge and Intel lowers their prices, 8 core/16 thread Zen2 could well drop to level of that current 6 core Intel.
Pretty sure AMD increased launch prices from original plans, because of Intel having kept high prices for their low thread count CPUs.


Zen2 Ryzens will work in most current AM4 mobos.
Also better motherboards have certainly good enough VRMs for running most Zen2 CPUs.
For bang per buck with limited budget even good B450 mobo could stay as valid choise.
Some very low end first gen Ryzen motherboards just won't be getting necessary BIOS updates* to support Zen2 Ryzens.

Really only guaranteed thing X570 motherboards bring over good current mobos is PCI-express v4.0.
But for mass storage that's as usefull for typical home user, as having lawnmover included in moon base equipment.
Also at least for more competitively priced graphics card's PCIe v3.0 x16 slot won't be significant bottleneck until after many years.

Anyway better to wait for release to see where motherboard prices will settle.
Even lower end X570 mobos should have good VRM.


BIOS update needs powering capable PC with supported CPU...
Except for some mobos with hardware routine for flashing BIOS from USB stick without CPU, memory or graphics card intalled.
So making sure that BIOS can be updated without CPU, or mobo comes with new enough BIOS from factory/shop updates BIOS, is only major challenge in choosing some current mobo for Ryzen 3000.
 
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