You know what your posts are? Fun. They're fun. You should draw some piccies and turn it in to a storybook for kids, JK Rowling ain't got nuthin' on you son.
Ships under attack in the middle east
- Thread starter XeNoN89
- Start date
You know what your posts are? Fun. They're fun. You should draw some piccies and turn it in to a storybook for kids, JK Rowling ain't got nuthin' on you son.
Caporegime
No don’t give him credit by saying his posts are fun, they aren’t...they full of **** absolute top notch ****, the very best you can buy.
Not only his posts but also that other ct nutcase tang0.
Ja, that's kinda the point I was making. We have a few of them, absolute nutters. Great fun reading their rubbish.
Soldato
Because showing Saudi sponsored terrorists alighting in the UAE before stripping off IRGC uniforms would scupper their plans for war.
Soldato
Yeap, he had the very tough job of trying to shake up the pre-determined mindset held by 99% of the US military at the time (back in 2002) of "We're No1, We're No1 - HOO-YAA-MASTERCHIEF!!!!!!!!!" etc which was a massively fallacy, proven by the failed "post-invasion" campaigns in both Iraq and Afghanistan over the past 18 years which has mostly beaten that mindset out of the US and cost thousands of lives doing so, making the US military far more restrained with it's "We're No1!" guff nowadays (at least from my military experience working alongside them).
Thats one reason why I believe the US military itself doesn't want a war with Iran (regardless of Government sabre rattling); after decades of insurgent conflict the military is fairly worn down, the troops are knackered, their equipment wrecked and need replacing but there's no money for it etc, so my best guess is that they'd need around a decade of "peace" to build themselves back-up before seriously considering another Iraq style conquest. However using SF and the use of airpower in limited ways are still viable options for punitive punishment if the US Government decides that action is necessary (a few ports/oil rigs would be hit at most).
I agree.
It would be insane for the US to attack them for the reasons you give, but that's the way they seem to be going. They are strangling them economically backing them into a corner where they will have no choice but to lash out.
http://syriapropagandamedia.org/wor...lleged-chemical-attack-in-douma-in-april-2018
In that link you can find a leaked report of the OPCW engineering team that finds that the only plausible explanation for the Douma attack was that it was staged.
One? Jesus, how about the Gulf of Tonkin incident that triggered the Vietnam War? Going from false flags to bare-faced lies how about WMDs in Iraq and viagra-fuelled mercenaries in Libya? The US has a well-established history of lying to justify wars.
Where did he say it was a false flag? The burden of proof is on those accusing Iran of carrying out this attack.
Who cares about Mueller? He's a joke who pushed the Iraq war lies.
He has rightly pointed out that the whole Skripal poisoning story is nonsense. That he was wrong (which he admitted) about the photos of the suspects going through the airport is does not detract from that.
What "Russian hack of the DNC"? Where was that proven?
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You aren't up to speed on the latest developments and I can't blame you for that as our press has completely ignored it.
Last month a leaked (and suppressed) report from the OPCW engineering team debunked these claims saying that the gas cannisters alleged to have caused this attack were planted by those on the ground at the time. Who was there at the time I hear you ask? Our jihadi rebel pals.
http://syriapropagandamedia.org/wor...lleged-chemical-attack-in-douma-in-april-2018
https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2019/05/strange-news-from-the-opcw-in-the-hague-.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...-video-conspiracy-theory-russia-a8927116.html
Our entire press outside of literally a couple of examples have completely ignored it for obvious reasons. It doesn't fit the narrative our government is pushing.
Yet I recall at the time of the Douma false flag hundreds of articles and news reports telling us 'something must be done'. Yet they don't bother to report a story that blows their earlier premise to pieces. Gee, I wonder why.
Yeah, we risked war with Russia in Syria to defend jihadis.
P.S. People should be angry about this. We are on the same side as ******* Al Qaeda.
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Caporegime
I'm only interested in evidence, not speculation and unsubstantiated claims.
The reason it took them so long to gather evidence is because Russia and Syria wouldn't let them enter the site, and kept them out for as long as possible. Which is exactly what you'd expect if Syria was guilty.
I've seen no reason to doubt the report.
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Caporegime
Iran is not financially strangled, she has plenty of international trading partners who are happy to ignore the sanctions.
That's a wall of text on a pro-Assad website run by a bunch of left-wing nobodies. I see no evidence to support the claim that this is 'a leaked report of the OPCW engineering team.'
If that really is a genuine OPCW memo, why did the OPCW report conclude that the Douma attack actually happened, and that a chlorine agent was definitely used?
(Source).
Wrong.
The Vietnam War was not started by the Gulf of Tonkin incident. It started in the 1950s, with the rise of the Chinese-backed Democratic Republic of Vietnam.
The Gulf of Tonkin incident on the 2nd of August 1964 definitely happened; the alleged incident on the 4th of August did not.
Ultimately it's a moot point since the USA was already involved in the Vietnam War by this stage, and had been since 1959, when the first US soldiers were killed in South Vietnam.
Yep, I agree.
Where's your evidence that he's right about the Skripal poisoning story being nonsense?
Click here, read, and learn.
They even identified the guys responsible, and issued indictments for them. This is old news.
Hilarious nonsense.
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Soldato
He/she thinks a site run by pro assad/pro.russian activists counts as irrefutable evidence. The fact the site has to state they're "unbiased" and advised by umpteen "professors" has clearly wowed them. Next he/she will repeatedly tell you something about the white helmets being funded by an ex British officer. This has been the recurring broken record in the ISIS discussion thread.
Heed my advice, chuck them on ignore now, or regret wasting hours of your time in a mind numbing circular debate with a shill/propaganda bot. They haven't got much else to bring to the party and will quickly seek to derail the thread to their goal of spreading more misinformation along the lines of the white helmets being fake.
Even with that they are having a huge effect on their economy and it's getting worse. India & Japan have stopped buying their oil for example. The slug Pompeo even says they want to bring Iranian oil exports to zero - that's an act of war. If the US doesn't want war why is it doing everything it can to back them into a corner?
The OPCW have confirmed it themselves as genuine if you read the link from the Daily Mail I posted - Peter Hitchens asked them about it and they said they were doing an internal investigation to find out who leaked it.
Why do you think? It doesn't fit the narrative that "Assad gassed his own people" so it was suppressed.
OK, it's just an example of a false flag the US has used.
Too many inconsistencies and strange things in the gov version.
The nerve agent was applied to the door handle yet the roof of the Skripal's house is removed...this lethal nerve agent acting at exactly the same time on the Skripals several hours after being applied despite their different ages and metabolisms...they just happened to be found by the head nurse of the British Army...the Skripals phones were both turned off for several hours on that day (meeting someone?)...lack of CCTV of their movements in a town full of cameras...a lethal nerve agent on their hands yet they were feeding bread to ducks and passed it to children who were unaffected...the OPCW saying the sample of novichoks provided to them was of 'high purity' despite having been allegedly taken from the door handle exposed to the elemets for days...on and on the strangeness goes.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/arch...believe-about-the-official-skripal-narrative/
No idea what happened that day, but the UK story (and the Russians' for that matter - those two guys weren't there to see the Salisbury spire!) doesn't add up.
Wow, they issued indictments so it must be true...
None of it has been tested in court so, no, it's not old news. The FBI never examined the actual DNC servers and instead relied on evidence from the third party in the pay of the Democrats, Crowdstrike. Very unusual.
Assange and Wikileaks have gone as far as can go in saying it was not from a state actor and hinted at it being an internal leak from the DNC. I'll take their word over that of the liar Mueller and the US intelligence services who have a history of lying about everything.
Is it? The gov position is that they don't want Syria retaking Idlib which is full of thousands of Al Qaeda (no-one disputes this). Our gov backed the jihadi rebels from the outset. This really is old news.
Caporegime
Please clarify your argument:
* the USA is trying to provoke Iran into starting a war ('backing them into a corner')
* the USA is trying to manufacture a justification for starting a war on Iran
You seem to be arguing for both simultaneously. Which is it? Also, what would Iran gain from starting a war with the USA?
I have since found a copy of the report, and I'm happy to accept it as genuine. However, its significance has been greatly overstated.
The report concludes there is 'a higher probability that both cylinders were manually placed at those two locations rather than being delivered from aircraft.'
This does not prove that Assad wasn't responsible, nor does it prove that the rebels were responsible.
So... just another conspiracy theory. OK.
Used for what? As I pointed out, the USA was already at war with Vietnam, so there was no need for a false flag.
And yet, you don't list any!
They removed the Skrtipals' roof, and a neighbouring garage. Why? Because this is part of the decontamination procedure, which covered a total of 13 different sites throughout Salisbury. The fact that you don't understand it doesn't make it suspicious.
Another victim of the contamination—DS Bailey, who was exposed to a bottle of the nerve agent—lost his entire home, and all the possessions within it.
Where's your evidence that it acted at exactly the same time on both of them, and why would their ages and metabolisms have any relevance to this?
Salisbury is home to a large British military base, so it's not at all surprising that a member of the British army was in the area (she was also attended by a civilian doctor at the time).
So what? This is not an 'inconsistency' or 'strange thing.'
Not true. CCTV captured the Skripals in the city at ~09.15, and driving towards the city centre from the area in which they lived, at 13:35.
The Skripals were also seen arriving in the Maltings car park, visiting the Bishops Mill Pub, dining at Zizzi on Castle Street, and leaving the restaurant afterwards.
Moisture weakens the potency of Novichok. Investigators noted that the heavy fog and high humidity would have greatly reduced its effectiveness (which is how the Skripals survived in the first place). Evidently neither the ducks nor the children were exposed to sufficient quantities of sufficient strength to make them ill.
The poison was applied to the door handle on the same day that the Skripals were poisoned. It was not 'exposed to the elements for days.'
Irrelevant.
Yes it is old news, this was all reported more than a year ago. The DNC hack has been proved; Russia has been exposed as the culprit. That's a fact.
CrowdStrike is an independent security company with impeccable credentials. It makes sense that the DNC would hire investigators of such calibre:
(Source).
Just another lie from Wikileaks. Assange openly fuelled the conspiracy theory that Rich was his source for the DNC hack, even after he knew it was false:
(Source).
The leak was no 'inside job', and Seth Rich was not the source. Assange knew this from the start, but continued to lie about it.
Idlib is under the control of multiple groups:
* Syrian Army
* Hezbollah (supporting Syria)
* Tahrir al-Sham and allies
* National Liberation Front and allies
* Turkish-backed Free Syrian Army
The government doesn't want Syria retaking Idlib because it contains millions of civilians, and we all know how Assad loves to treat civilians. Asserting that this is an attempt to protect Al Qaeda (which the US and UK governments have been attacking consistently ever since this whole mess started) is rank nonsense.
'Jihadi rebels'? The Syrian rebels are a mishmash of secular and religious militias. You can't lump them all under the 'jihadi' umbrella. Odd that you complain about jihadis, but seem to have no problem with Hezbollah (a literal jihadi terrorist group).
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Soldato
Doesn't fit the agenda being pushed so...
I'm suggesting the result of them being backed into a corner could start a war and it's possible the US is also using false flags to achieve that aim. The two are not mutually exclusive.
If you push a country hard enough they may eventually lash out as they feel they have no other choice.
Greatly overstated? The official report hints heavily that they were dropped from a helicopter implicating the Syrian gov while the suppressed report states the only plausible way they could have got there was if they were manually placed which implicates the jihadi rebels.
A conspiracy theory? It's a genuine suppressed doc from the OPCW that was obviously hidden as it went against the warmongering narrative. Please explain why it was suppressed then?
Yet they did one anyway so clearly there was a need. Look, this really doesn't matter as it was just an example of a false flag.
It was on the doorhandle yet the roof gets removed? How did it get up there? Yeah that sounds 'standard'. As Murray pointed out:
"Remember that traces of the “novichok” were allegedly found in a hotel room in Poplar, which is still in use as a hotel room and did not have to be destroyed, and an entire bottle of it was allegedly found in Charlie Rowley’s house, which has not had to be destroyed. Novichok was found in Zizzi’s restaurant, which did not have to be destroyed."
They were both found incapacitated on the bench at the same after being out and about the town having lunch and so on for a few hours. It's of relevance as they were completely different physically in terms of age and weight yet whatever they were exposed to took effect within the same very short period. Has that been explained?
Yeah, nothing at all coincidental about the HEAD NURSE OF THE BRITISH ARMY being the first on the scene of an alleged nerve agent attack.
There's loads of missing CCTV footage. Again, Murray:
"As you would expect in a city as covered in CCTV as Salisbury, their early morning journey was easily traced and the position of their car at various times was given by the police.
Yet no evidence of their return journey has ever been offered. There is now a tiny window between Boshirov and Petrov arriving, painting the doorknob apparently with the Skripals now inexplicably back inside their home, and the Skripals leaving again by car, so quickly after the doorknob painting that they catch up with Boshirov and Petrov – or certainly being no more than 200 metres from them in Salisbury City Centre. There is undoubtedly a huge amount of CCTV video of the Skripals’ movements which has never been released. For example, the parents of one of the boys who Sergei was chatting with while feeding the ducks, was shown “clear” footage by the Police of the Skripals at the pond, yet this has never been released. This however is the moment at which the evidence puts Boshirov and Petrov at the closest to them. What does the concealed CCTV of the Skripals with the ducks show?"
The magic Novichoks that can have any properties required to fit the story.
Yes, but how long had passed before the sample was taken from the doorhandle? It was days before they even came to that conclusion and between that time countless people had been in and out of the house using that handle. How could there have been no impurities after that? You yourself say this magic substance is affected by moisture yet the sample provided was pure. How is that possible?
No, it isn't a fact. Crowdstrike were in the employment of the DNC so by definition were not an independent source. They had a record of making claims about Russia in relation to Ukraine that turned out to be incorrect so not impartial either. This is who the FBI outsourced their investigation to - what a joke.
"In December 2016, CrowdStrike released a report[25] stating that Russian government-affiliated group Fancy Bear had hacked a Ukrainian artillery app. They concluded that Russia had used the hack to cause large losses to Ukrainian artillery units. The app (called ArtOS) is installed on tablet PCs and used for fire-control.[26] The earliest version of the app (supported until 2015) was called POPR-D30 and installed on Android phones and tablets. CrowdStrike found a hacked variation of POPR-D30 being distributed on Ukrainian military forums that utilized an X-Agent implant.[27]
The International Institute for Strategic Studies rejected CrowdStrike's assessment of hacking causing losses to Ukrainian artillery units, saying that their data on Ukrainian D30 howitzer losses was misused by CrowdStrike in their report. The Ukrainian Ministry of Defense also rejected the CrowdStrike report, stating that actual artillery losses were "several times smaller than the number reported by [CrowdStrike] and are not associated with [Russian hacking]".[28]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CrowdStrike
Idlib is not under the control of the Syrian Army hence why they are having to retake it.
The main groups are Al Qaeda affiliates as the UN Special Envoy for Syria has said.
The rest are a motley group who have no problem fighting alongside Al Qaeda so are indistinguishable from them.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-45401474
Idlib has been described as the largest Al Qaeda safe haven in the world by the US.
Speaking last July at a conference organized by the Middle East Institute, Brett McGurk – the U.S. government’s Special Presidential Envoy for the Global Coalition to Counter ISIL (Daesh, ISIS) – called Syria’s Idlib province “the largest Al Qaeda safe haven since 9/11 tied directly to Ayman al-Zawahiri [current leader of Al Qaeda].” He then immediately added that the Al Qaeda presence in Idlib was a “huge problem” and had been so “for some time.”
So there's no disputing it's full of Al Qaeda yet the Syrian gov are meant to just sit back and do nothing? Yeah, the UK cares deeply about civilian casualties...laughable. It's touching that you actually take at face value what our government says.
The facts are it's controlled by jihadis and our gov is against them retaking it meaning we are on the same side. It's only rank nonsense if you ignore the obvious.
The declassified US intelligence report from the DIA (Defence Intelligence Agency) stated that the insurgency was predominantly Islamist from the outset and that Al Qaeda were the major force behind it.
So yes, they are jihadi rebels. This 'moderate rebel' drivel was demolished years ago hence why you don't hear anyone refer to it anymore.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/03/us-isis-syria-iraq
Our gov isn't allied with Hezbollah so why is that relevant? I'll leave it to Syrians to criticise their own gov's actions and alliances.
Soldato
Repeat a lie a 1000 times and people eventually will accept it as the truth.
Caporegime
Why would Iran believe that attacking the world's biggest superpower is the only available choice?
And this is why.
How?
I haven't seen any evidence that it was suppressed.
How was it a false flag? A false flag is when one country attacks another and blames it on a third party. But the first Gulf of Tonkin incident was a genuine attack by the Vietnamese, while the second alleged incident did not occur at all. Neither of these cases meets the definition of a false flag.
I presume the roof was removed as a precautionary measure, since the house was 'ground zero' for a high level of contamination. But if you're still confused about this, I suggest you contact the police and ask them.
Again, you're falling back to 'I don't understand, therefore it's wrong.' That's a logical fallacy.
If it's in a bottle, it's obviously contained. That would explain why Rowley's house wasn't destroyed.
Traces of Novichok were found at Zizzi's, and they were successfully cleaned up by the military. What's the issue here, exactly?
This doesn't prove that it affected them at exactly the same time. It tells us nothing about precisely when they succumbed.
As I've already pointed out, you haven't explained why their differing physiology and age would make any difference.
Relevance? Oj wait... this is all part of your grand conspiracy theory. OK.
What missing footage? How do you know? You cannot claim there is missing footage unless you can show that it previously existed.
No CCTV evidence, at least. But so what?
Wait, first the claim was 'there's no CCTV footage', now it's 'there's a lot of CCTV footage but we haven't seen it all'? Make up your mind.
So what?
'Not released' is not the same as 'concealed', and since the parents of the boy were shown it, it obviously wasn't concealed at all!
Try asking the police?
No, it was days before they made that conclusion public. Big difference.
Did anyone say that the sample on the door handle was pure? I don't recall anyone saying that. The OPCW said that the nerve agent used was of a high purity, and considering they had an entire bottle of it by this stage, it's not difficult to see how they'd be able to arrive at this conclusion.
Nonsense. If Crowdstrike was owned and run by the DNC, that would mean they're not independent. But this wasn't the case.
It's exactly the same as when a corporation pays an auditing company to check their books: the auditor has no connection to the company, and is therefore functioning as an independent agent. The fact that they're being paid by the client does not change this.
No evidence for this assertion, I see.
Short version: CrowdStrike reveals information embarrassing to the Ukrainian government, and the Ukrainian government denies it. Quelle surprise!
This is just 'he said/she said' stuff, it proves nothing.
As I pointed out, it's partly under the control of multiple parties, including the Syrian Army. Nobody has complete control.
OK, so now you're just equivocating.
Yep, agreed.
Nobody has said that.
More conspiracy theorist tinfoil hattery.
More ludicrous equivocation. If we're on the same side as Al Qaeda why have we literally spent years killing them? You haven't addressed that point.
Well, you're all worried about Al Qaeda but you seem fine with Hezbollah, so I was just wondering about the reason for your double standards. The answer seems to be that you don't care, which is pretty much what I expected.
Soldato
Aaaand it's derailed.
PS, Iran did the mines on the ship.
PS, Iran did the mines on the ship.
Which means their claims about the chain of evidence - keeping in mind the next bit that they are supposed to be non-political and not appropriating blame - are weak.
See the OPCW response to the leaked report which undermines the veracity of their conclusions because they limited the scope of their investigation on the basis they are supposed to be non-political, non-finger pointing despite portraying their investigation as comprehensive. I'm not saying that proves the opposite, there is no definitive proof it was a false flag event, but unfortunately it does shoot a lot of holes in the official narrative especially when combined with credible information from other sources. I'm not saying EvilSooty is right as they also swallow all the pro-Russian propaganda going and are far too narrow minded only seeing what they want to see but there are some truths amongst the stuff they've presented.