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** The AMD Navi Thread **

Associate
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mmmm, whats that standard DX12 benchmark? Ah yes Timespy, which cards dominate? 'special optimisation' more like Panos clutching at straws again... :p
I think hes right, cards that are usually terrible at DX12/Async like Maxwell/Pascal cards keep up with their AMD counterparts even though they fall leagues behind in proper DX12/Vulkan games.
DX12/Vulkan would have been more widely adopted YEARS ago if Nvidia had proper support for it, no point making games for DX12/Vulkan when 80% of the market doesn't benefit from it. AMD had been pushing for better APIs since 2013 with Mantle/BF4 (Which actually doubled my minimum framerates on a 2500k/7950) but it went nowhere...
 
Caporegime
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Nvidia has superior architecture on what? DX11 only?
How about DX12, Async Compute and Vulcan? Even TimeSpy has special pipeline optimization to run on Nvidia cards without showing poor performance. Something that cannot be hidden in games even today with Turing. Have you seen the abysmal performance of the 2080Ti in Vulcan games?
That's the superior architecture? Cutting corners like Intel does, albeit the latter allowing security holes because is CPU?
In terms of perf/watt and perf/transistor, nVidia has a massive lead over AMD. Ergo, superior architecture. It's not hard, Panos.
 
Soldato
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I think hes right, cards that are usually terrible at DX12/Async like Maxwell/Pascal cards keep up with their AMD counterparts even though they fall leagues behind in proper DX12/Vulkan games.
DX12/Vulkan would have been more widely adopted YEARS ago if Nvidia had proper support for it, no point making games for DX12/Vulkan when 80% of the market doesn't benefit from it. AMD had been pushing for better APIs since 2013 with Mantle/BF4 (Which actually doubled my minimum framerates on a 2500k/7950) but it went nowhere...
what like this 'proper' Vulkan game :confused:

A0u9sUbh.png.jpg

Here's me thinking the 1080Ti was Pascal....
 
Soldato
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what like this 'proper' Vulkan game :confused:

A0u9sUbh.png.jpg

Here's me thinking the 1080Ti was Pascal....

A bit surprising those results,also considering Vega also is somewhat broken at a hardware level(features that never really worked).

My GTX1080 equals a Vega 56, and that is with the load balancing which Maxwell lacks(Pascal uses this to stop stalling on async workloads) so with Vulkan it does seem to be not running as well as DX11. Also the Radeon VII is normally close to GTX1080TI level performance and its an overclocked Vega 64(with a slight reduction in compute units) on 7NM.

The GTX970 is doing very poorly compared to the R9 390,and AMD Hawaii is an older generation GPU. Shame Hawaii was the last time AMD actually really had a knockout GPU.
 
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Soldato
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I’d quite like to see some variation in the AMD cards - different coolers, clocks and what not from various manufacturers.

None of the recent AMD cards are particularly eye catching. While I appreciate it is form over function, something that looks like it should’ve launched 10 years ago doesn't help.
 
Soldato
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AMD Navi RDNA specs
That 7nm Navi 10 GPU is the first RDNA-based graphics chip, and the full core – used by the RX 5700 XT – comes with 40 compute units, and therefore 2,560 cores across two shader engines, with 64 render output units, and 160 texture units. It’s 251mm2 and has a full 10.3bn transistors inside it. Navi has a GDDR6 memory controller, though is compatible with HBM if needed, and has PCIe 4.0 support too.
 
Soldato
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mmmm, whats that standard DX12 benchmark? Ah yes Timespy, which cards dominate? 'special optimisation' more like Panos clutching at straws again... :p

TimeSpy is rigged and that's known since 2016, because of your ignorance the facts doesn't mean I am clutching straws.
To boot is coded to strictly favor Pascal's hack-job async implementation, namely compute preemption, as per nVidia's dx12 "do's"and "dont's" list pushed down the throat of engine makers and developers. And we see that when proper DX12/Vulcan async compute games appear, how bad Nvidia cards perform and how better AMD cards fare.

Preemption means TimeSpy is coded the same way the DX11 Firestrike is, running in single path. Because outright could have been impossible to run on Kepler & Maxwell GPUs since both do not support DX12 parallelism like AMD does since Hawaii (290/290X) all way back in 2013, and Pascal performance could have been abysmal because it doesn't support proper parallel Async compute.
However running preemption, hampers significantly AMD GPUs performance, completely castrating a far more advance design in line with DX12 specifications.

Similarly we see that with MS DXR how many corners Nvidia is cutting, while trying to push their own version of Ray Tracing instead the one of Microsofts supports in their specs.
Here is the Pascal implementation of DX12 in 2016 against AMD Polaris/Fury and TimeSpy had to be written following those restrictions, otherwise it wouldn't run at all on Pascal or other Nvidia cards. Superior architecture you say? :D

c6NyjF0.png


Here is the execution of different pipelines. Pre-Emption is what TimeSpy runs on, no different than Firestrike execution pipeline. The Async Shaders is according to DX12 spec, and found in AOTS for example. And the last one, is a botched version on the drivers Nvidia was trying to implement some time in the future.

m8Zv2Eh.png

Also you forgot as recent (not even 2 months ago) as World War Z on Vulcan Ultra, even the V56 beats the RTX2080 (with similar perf to RTX2080Ti), while V64 & RVII completely trash by a big margin the RTX2080Ti at 1080p and 2560x1440 and only barely manages to pull 4 FPS more at 4K. Strange Brigade maybe is another good example? How about Doom?
How about activating DX12 on Warhammer 2. My GTX1080 saw 30% fps drop in DX12 (even Kaapstad's Titan Pascal did), and the FuryX only lost 1 fps when we run the benchmarks comparison then. And the list goes on and one. See Battlefield V how AMD cards perform at DX12. Or you will say "game is AMD optimized" here also, when is a heavily Nvidia sponsored game?
And more Vulcan games are coming out and faster now, because of Macs.
 
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Caporegime
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LOLs @Panos. AMD's architecture is now "far more advanced" than nVidia's? You don't half talk some absolute nonsense.

Everyone knows they're playing catch-up on almost all fronts. From compute/data centre to gaming.
 
Soldato
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My current strategy is to get the 5700XT, the cheapest 8 core, and the cheapest X570 mobo with reasonable VRMs and no frills.

If the Morpheus II doesn't work on the Vega 64 on Sunday, I am on same boat, even if I was reluctant to get the blower, and was waiting for 3 fan solutions in August.
Saying that given the price AMD should have used the RVII cooler, thats my only annoyance tbh.
 
Soldato
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Soldato
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You do know a driver for NVidia was released after that? Of course you do.....you are so balanced in your views :rolleyes:

'TimeSpy is rigged and that's known since 2016', pure Panos gold....:D
Urgg its true, the radeon 7 in timespy scores lower than a 2070/1080.
But in firestrike ultra destroys a 2080 by 2000+ points.
The amd design is far far more advanced, but advanced does not mean faster. Compare a tesla to a lotus esprit for a loose example

And in wwz fyi the driver update doesn't catch up completely. And 1xxx series nvidias still suffer
 
Soldato
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Urgg its true, the radeon 7 in timespy scores lower than a 2070/1080.
But in firestrike ultra destroys a 2080 by 2000+ points.
The amd design is far far more advanced, but advanced does not mean faster. Compare a tesla to a lotus esprit for a loose example

And in wwz fyi the driver update doesn't catch up completely. And 1xxx series nvidias still suffer

I don’t think time spy is rigged but like any gpu the vega vii has its advantages and disadvantages. Vega vii would be quite a bit better than a 2080 in the ‘select’ games that I play but any comparison review shows it’s not quite on par with a 2080.

WWZ (I’ve nearly finished now) the Vulcan is still crap in Nvidia even after latest drivers. It does allow AMD to have parity with nvidias dx11 though.
 
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