Scotland has today introduced a minimum unit price for alcohol

StriderX · 19 Jun 2019 at 17:52

Teh_Next said:
It discriminates the very poorest alcoholics in society. Forcing them to spend more on their addiction. Which they will do. I know a few locals that still buy what would have been cheap cider, at an inflated price.

Discriminating against alcoholics is entirely the point, and they're continued poverty is in part because they're alcoholics, getting help is up to them ultimately.

As the NHS or government can't exactly find every alcoholic person out there to offer them advice beyond the usual channels (adverts or GP checkups if they ever go), that's unrealistic.

200sols · 19 Jun 2019 at 17:56

Teh_Next said:
It discriminates the very poorest alcoholics in society. Forcing them to spend more on their addiction. Which they will do. I know a few locals that still buy what would have been cheap cider, at an inflated price.

Are you on drugs?

Teh_Next · 19 Jun 2019 at 18:03

StriderX said:
Discriminating against alcoholics is entirely the point, and they're continued poverty is in part because they're alcoholics, getting help is up to them ultimately.

No it's not the point. The point is it's supposed to encourage less drinking of socially stigmatised and problematic drinks such as strong cider. It doesn't work.

StriderX · 19 Jun 2019 at 18:16

Teh_Next said:
No it's not the point. The point is it's supposed to encourage less drinking of socially stigmatised and problematic drinks such as strong cider. It doesn't work.

Do you have data to back that up?

Teh_Next · 19 Jun 2019 at 18:22

StriderX said:
Do you have data to back that up?

StriderX said:
Discriminating against alcoholics is entirely the point, and they're continued poverty is in part because they're alcoholics, getting help is up to them ultimately.

As the NHS or government can't exactly find every alcoholic person out there to offer them advice beyond the usual channels (adverts or GP checkups if they ever go), that's unrealistic.

You have data to back that up?

What is Minimum Unit Pricing?
Research into differing price policy options concluded that a minimum unit price is the most effective of a range of policy options. It has been recommended as a way of increasing the price of drinks such as own-brand spirits and white cider, which have high alcohol content but are usually very cheap.

Scottish government on minimum unit pricing.

StriderX · 19 Jun 2019 at 18:24

Teh_Next said:
You have data to back that up?

I didn't need data for my statement, its rather obvious that alcoholics are spending a gross amount of money that could be better spent on things other than liquid depression, i could waste my time finding it if you'd like, just to not reply to me afterwards because it's so obvious?

You've explicitly said this tactic isn't working, without proving so, maybe the drop in litreage is just that changing social factors or the 2005 act finally boring everyone, i'm sure the government will call victory regardless.

Dis86 · 19 Jun 2019 at 18:25

Teh_Next said:
It discriminates the very poorest alcoholics in society. Forcing them to spend more on their addiction. Which they will do

They're not forced to do anything. They choose to do it.
There are many free avenues for help with alcoholism. They again choose not to take them.
That's their fault.

Teh_Next · 19 Jun 2019 at 18:25

StriderX said:
I didn't need data for my statement, its rather obvious that alcoholics are spending a gross amount of money that could be better spent on liquid depression, i could waste my time finding it if you'd like to not reply to me afterwards because it's so obvious?

OK. Argue with yourself then if you're going to be silly about it.

Teh_Next · 19 Jun 2019 at 18:27

Dis86 said:
They're not forced to do anything. They choose to do it.
There are many free avenues for help with alcoholism. They again choose not to take them.
That's their fault.

There is but that won't stop them in an instant will it? It's not just as simple as stop that, seek help. :rolleyes:

Dis86 · 19 Jun 2019 at 18:29

Teh_Next said:
There is but that won't stop them in an instant will it? It's not just as simple as stop that, seek help.

Yes, it is that simple. If they are medically dependent then they receive alcohol through the nhs. It doesn't cost them anything.

Teh_Next · 19 Jun 2019 at 18:30

Dis86 said:
Yes, it is that simple. If they are medically dependent then they receive alcohol through the nhs. It doesn't cost them anything.

No it isn't.

Dis86 · 19 Jun 2019 at 18:31

Teh_Next said:
No it isn't.

Ok. No it's not. People never get better by seeking help and working through their afflictions. Addiction isn't a choice, it's forced upon them. DRINK OR DIE!!!!!

opstrat · 19 Jun 2019 at 19:11

the second part of that report was that the number of alcohol deaths in Scotland are still on the rise.

StriderX · 19 Jun 2019 at 19:19

opstrat said:
the second part of that report was that the number of alcohol deaths in Scotland are still on the rise.

I doubt that's going to change as the people dying from it have all sorts of other issues. It's majorly in the 45-75 age range, it's just compounding other poor health.

It wont go down by much until the chain of unhealthy older living is broken and frankly i dont see a lot of those people changing their tune regardless of how expensive the alcohol is.

Regardless this will take another decade to say its working and the full 20 to see if it achieved it's goal.

Hagar · 19 Jun 2019 at 20:01

An additional bonus is that the one man corner shop is able to compete with the supermarket on the retail park. No more massive loss leaders in alcohol pricing to tempt shoppers away from local stores.

The death rate will only fall when the people who currently suffer chronic liver disease have passed.

Teh_Next · 19 Jun 2019 at 21:20

Dis86 said:
Ok. No it's not. People never get better by seeking help and working through their afflictions. Addiction isn't a choice, it's forced upon them. DRINK OR DIE!!!!!

No one said people don't get better when they seek help. It's still not jus as simple as seeking help.
Plus alcoholics will die if they just stop drinking.

Teh_Next · 19 Jun 2019 at 21:22

StriderX said:
I doubt that's going to change as the people dying from it have all sorts of other issues. It's majorly in the 45-75 age range, it's just compounding other poor health.

It wont go down by much until the chain of unhealthy older living is broken and frankly i dont see a lot of those people changing their tune regardless of how expensive the alcohol is.

Regardless this will take another decade to say its working and the full 20 to see if it achieved it's goal.

Got data to back that statement up?

Teh_Next · 19 Jun 2019 at 21:26

Dis86 said:
Yes, it is that simple. If they are medically dependent then they receive alcohol through the nhs. It doesn't cost them anything.

Alcoholics don't receive alcohol through the NHS. They get a few extra quid on their benefits if they're claiming benefits and functional alcoholics pay for their own, because they work and don't claim benefit. What planet are you on.
Addiction to alcohol is treated on the NHS by conservative reduction management.

Dis86 · 19 Jun 2019 at 22:06

Teh_Next said:
Plus alcoholics will die if they just stop drinking.

No they won't. I suggest you read the difference between alcoholism and dependence.

As for the NHS I believe they're the source of the funding for the benefit.

loltim · 20 Jun 2019 at 00:46

Russinating said:
Who uses MSN News?

Edge users that haven't set their homepage. Cretins basically