AMD Zen 2 (Ryzen 3000) - *** NO COMPETITOR HINTING ***

[Robert896r1]

zen 2 feels like meh now. the anticipation and all this waiting has killed it. few months back i would have paid money for it but now i'm thinking intel is going to come back with something better instead.

What exactly is Intel going to do? They can't keep adding cores due to thermal density issues and their 10nm is no where in sight for consumer desktop.

I have a 9900k. It can run close to 100degrees with just 1.2v load at 5ghz on what I have is an amazing chip. That's just cinebenchr20. We're not talking about some "Power virus" software. There's not much headroom left there.

The best they can do is add 2 more cores, remove the iGPU die and hope the extra real estate can help with the thermal density. Adding another 2 core in the same space (squeezing things together more) is going to a laughable disaster.

 

[humbug]

Even coffeelake with 10 cores the 3950X will muller it.

The fact is Intel are beaten for a little while now at least, the only chance they have is to try and get IceLake clocking as high as Coffeelake and that's going to take some time to get 10nm to that state

 

[Robert896r1]

Even coffeelake with 10 cores the 3950X will muller it.

The fact is Intel are beaten for a little while now at least, the only chance they have is to try and get IceLake clocking as high as Coffeelake and that's going to take some time to get 10nm to that state

To be fair to them, if they add 2 cores, remove the igpu, spread out the heat and keep the price at $499 with 5ghz all core when OC'd, they'll have a nice spot to be competitive at. Whether the engineering efforts towards that vs putting all your eggs in the 10nm basket is worth it, I'd say no.

Outside of forum bragging right, intel's main focus will be to keep their server margins protected first. They can just lower price on the 9000 series chips and ride it out.

 

[DragonQ]

So you suggest i get the Ryzen 7 3700x over the 5 3600x. Is the difference gonna be that much better for gaming ? The price difference currently seems to be £50 so i dont mind streching to that but i dont wanna spend anymore than £280 on a cpu. Was looking closer to £230 but i can strech it as im gonna need a new motherboard, ram and i think i might need a new cooler as im not sure my corsair H100i will be compatible with the new motherboards

Depends how long you wanna keep the CPU for. The R5 3600(X) are going to be the bang-for-buck gaming buy for sure but as next generation consoles will use 8 core Zen based chips, 8 cores will likely be the sweet spot in a few years.

 

[8 Pack]

If you need 16 cores which gamers absolutely do not....,..mainstream do not!!!

You guys all type like you actually have tested everything........and of course as is standard on this forum people test a miniscule sample at best...... In this case not tested at all....

 

[humbug]

To be fair to them, if they add 2 cores, remove the igpu, spread out the heat and keep the price at $499 with 5ghz all core when OC'd, they'll have a nice spot to be competitive at. Whether the engineering efforts towards that vs putting all your eggs in the 10nm basket is worth it, I'd say no.

Outside of forum bragging right, intel's main focus will be to keep their server margins protected first. They can just lower price on the 9000 series chips and ride it out.

The iGPU actually acts as a heat sync because it's a cold part of the silicon that the heat from the cores can leak into, removing it to replace it with another two hot cores will just increase the thermal density.

Then there's the added power consumption, taking the 9900K to 250 Watt's, add that to the increased thermal density and you have more of a problem.

 

[humbug]

If you need 16 cores which gamers absolutely do not....,..mainstream do not!!!

You guys all type like you actually have tested everything........and of course as is standard on this forum people test a miniscule sample at best...... In this case not tested at all....

A hardware enthusiast talking about need, I lived to see the day.

 

[Robert896r1]

If you need 16 cores which gamers absolutely do not....,..mainstream do not!!!

You guys all type like you actually have tested everything........and of course as is standard on this forum people test a miniscule sample at best...... In this case not tested at all....

People are naturally going to speculate based on the information available and past experiences. I don't see many people speaking in absolutes. It's always fun to look back and see how predictions matched reality.

 

[Mensy]

There's an AM4 mounting plate you can buy from corsair I believe for slightly older coolers. They originally offered it for free.

Thanx for the info didnt know that

 

[gavinh87]

A hardware enthusiast talking about need, I lived to see the day.

We need 3 titans in sli too........
Oh wait!
Doesn't stop certain people building and making videos trying to sell them

 

[4K8KW10]

Looking back to 1.78 when Ryzen outperformed Intel's offerings by a substantial margin, I think this is just a recurrence. The benchmark isn't optimized for Sunny Cove's cache hierarchy.

Also note that in Intel's slides, the graph they showed was anywhere from 99.4% of the IPC, up to 140%, with 118% being the average.

That means there's 18% on the left and 22% on the right. Most workloads will be lucky to benefit by 18%.

Also, if that's an AVX-512 workload (again, no actual description of how they get to 140%), then yes that is highly likely, but given that AVX is still lacking in adoption, it won't matter to most. They won't see those gains.

The 40% figure comes from one type of calculation - it's not representative of day to day or real life performance - the actual average is much lower

And as good as Sunnycove's IPC may be - they max out at 3.6ghz boost clock - so all the IPC gains is lost by slow clockspeeds

Then, we are not talking about SunnyCove https://forums.evga.com/Intel-10nm-...equot-CPU-Cores-with-Gen11-iGPU-m2896749.aspx , but about the new ground-up architecture that has been rumoured to remove the backwards compatibility with the legacy X86 instruction set, in order to free space up for much larger performance improvements - OceanCove might it be.

 

[nomadd]

If you need 16 cores which gamers absolutely do not....,..mainstream do not!!!

You guys all type like you actually have tested everything........and of course as is standard on this forum people test a miniscule sample at best...... In this case not tested at all....

Hey, about this £33,000.00 PC you just sold me..

 

[LePhuronn]

zen 2 feels like meh now. the anticipation and all this waiting has killed it. few months back i would have paid money for it but now i'm thinking intel is going to come back with something better instead.

So having to wait a maximum of 6 months between the first CES demo and 7th July release has "killed" Zen 2 for you, but you're perfectly happy to hold off for years in the delusion that Intel might come back with something better? lol, jog on.

 

[Journey]

People are naturally going to speculate based on the information available and past experiences. I don't see many people speaking in absolutes. It's always fun to look back and see how predictions matched reality.

Waste of time replying to be fair, his attitude is shocking at the best of times.

 

[4K8KW10]

zen 2 feels like meh now. the anticipation and all this waiting has killed it. few months back i would have paid money for it but now i'm thinking intel is going to come back with something better instead.

Zen 2 is a unpolished mess up. They had to start with PCIe 4.0 on the most expensive X399 platform, and then in some time later, to move it to AM5 together with DDR5 if they wish.
No one in the right mind can expect people who buy a 199$ heca-core Ryzen 5 to need or even be able to use/saturate the massive IO bandwidth.

AMD can still offer PCIe 4.0 on the AM4, but instead they should have moved to PCIe x8 or even x4 4.0 for the main GPU 1 and GPU 2 slots.
Thus leaving many lanes for storage.

Also, why not more 12-cores? Why only one offering?

 

[humbug]

eh... he does keep at it doesn't he?

 

[SiDeards73]

zen 2 feels like meh now. the anticipation and all this waiting has killed it. few months back i would have paid money for it but now i'm thinking intel is going to come back with something better instead.

Sounds like you dont need to bother posting or reading this particular thread anymore then either? good job you wont need to waste anymore time here then isnt it you can leave the rest of us plebs to discuss the inferior meh AMD launch.

I mean its not like every post of yours in this thread has been dismissive towards AMD either is it, not like you have an agenda or something....

 

[killem]

Zen 2 is a unpolished mess up. They had to start with PCIe 4.0 on the most expensive X399 platform, and then in some time later, to move it to AM5 together with DDR5 if they wish.
No one in the right mind can expect people who buy a 199$ heca-core Ryzen 5 to need or even be able to use/saturate the massive IO bandwidth.

AMD can still offer PCIe 4.0 on the AM4, but instead they should have moved to PCIe x8 or even x4 4.0 for the main GPU 1 and GPU 2 slots.
Thus leaving many lanes for storage.

Also, why not more 12-cores? Why only one offering?

AMD want to be seen as the company that is driving tech forward in the cpu space after years of stagnation by intel. PCIe4.0 is not needed currently in mainstream and your right that it should have been introduced on the next gen threadripper platform. Video editing at 4k would really benefit from the extra NVMe speeds.
But as a selling point to a lot of uniformed buyers AMD must see having it on this gens motherboards beneficial to their overall sales.

 

[SiDeards73]

Zen 2 is a unpolished mess up. They had to start with PCIe 4.0 on the most expensive X399 platform, and then in some time later, to move it to AM5 together with DDR5 if they wish.
No one in the right mind can expect people who buy a 199$ heca-core Ryzen 5 to need or even be able to use/saturate the massive IO bandwidth.

AMD can still offer PCIe 4.0 on the AM4, but instead they should have moved to PCIe x8 or even x4 4.0 for the main GPU 1 and GPU 2 slots.
Thus leaving many lanes for storage.

Also, why not more 12-cores? Why only one offering?

Why dont you do yourself and everyone else a favour then and take your views elsewhere, leave the adults to discuss amongst themselves. You have consistently managed to contradict yourself multiple times in this thread, your best bet is to slink off out and hope no one notices you have left, as you really add ZERO to the discussion, and its becoming laughably pathetic watching your straw grabbing nonsense being constantly spouted on here.

I really dont get why people have to come to threads where people are discussing a topic just to say nay or announce how disappointed or disapproving they are of the topic, not once as thats normal, but multiple times at any given opportunity.

Do you walk past peoples houses that you dont like and shout at them constantly that you dont like their choice of house, car, clothes etc? no? i thought not, so why should discussion threads not be different? If you dont like the stuff being discussed, make your point and move on, instead of haunting the thread ridiculing yourself continuously.

 

[Stephanie Peterson]

This forum, what a disappointment - i swear it seems as if folk want us to return to the bad old days of crap quads and a monopoly.