Are local GPs going down hill or are their hands tied ?

wesimmo · 27 Jun 2019 at 16:49

Caracus2k said:
So we agree 'austerity' isn't the issue then or are you just trying to be awkward?

No.

It's probably the major issue, but to say it's the only issue would be stupid.

Caracus2k · 27 Jun 2019 at 16:52

Minstadave said:
Austerity in health is real, even 7% of GDP lags well behind the average in the EU. Your numbers differ from kingsfund figures:

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/blog/2...nding-compare-health-spending-internationally

A decline in spending since 2009 as a percentage of GDP.

Demand is outstripping growth in the NHS. That's neither lazy or incorrect. Demand will not stop increasing, yet the brakes have been well and truly on when it comes to spending. You can see the effects on this on a daily basis.

you are seemingly unable to read your own links....

Over the next few years spending on the NHS increased substantially, pushing total (public plus private) spending to 8.8 per cent of GDP by 2009.

The figues don't match because my figures are state spending only.

UK spending lagging behind EU spending for decades isn't (tory) austerity or austerity at all you need to learn what words mean.

And talking about a decline in spending per GDP specifically from a year like 2009 is disengenious in the extreme as the UK was reeling at the time from the full effects of the financial crisis which had caused GDP to contact sharply in that year.

ONS figures ....

2008 Q1 GDP £456,663m

2009 Q1 GDP £428,073m

Minstadave · 27 Jun 2019 at 16:53

Caracus2k said:
you are seemingly unable to read your own links

And then what happened after 2009? UK health spending decreased, pushing us well behind the EU average.

Caracus2k · 27 Jun 2019 at 17:01

Minstadave said:
And then what happened after 2009? UK health spending decreased, pushing us well behind the EU average.

read my additions picking On 2009 as a reference year for such matters is either to be ignorant or to be deliberately disengenious about what was going on at the time.

Irish_Tom · 27 Jun 2019 at 17:02

Caracus2k said:
From before the finial crash in 2007 to the latest figures UK spending for health has gone up as a percentage of GDP, as an overall figure and per head in advance of inflation with has averaged a bit under 3% per annum in that period (CPI) 61.319 billion in 2007 £'s would be 83.575 billion in 2018 £'s adjusted for inflation.

2007 - health spending 6.74% of GDP
Population - 61.319 million
Total spending - 94.69 billion

2018 7.06% of GDP
Population - 66.466 million
Total spending 145.81billion

I think you've got your sums slightly wrong there — you cite 61.319 billion in 2007 but 61.319 is the population figure in million.

The total spend of £94.69Bn adjusted for inflation would equate to roughly £129Bn — so you're right in the sense that spending has been slightly above inflation (let's call it £17Bn over 11 years or £1.5Bn per year) — in the grand scheme of things of the NHS budget that's not a huge increase.

I'm not suggesting your other points aren't valid, just correcting that point.

Caracus2k · 27 Jun 2019 at 17:03

Irish_Tom said:
I think you've got your sums slightly wrong there — you cite 61.319 billion in 2007 but 61.319 is the population figure in million.

The total spend of £94.69Bn adjusted for inflation would equate to roughly £129bn — so you're right in the sense that spending has been slightly above inflation (let's call it £17Bn over 11 years or £1.5Bn per year — in the grand scheme of things of the NHS budget that's not a huge increase.

I'm not suggesting your other points aren't valid, just correcting that point.

You are correct with the inflation figure.

On phone so copied wrong number in to calculator.

Minstadave · 27 Jun 2019 at 17:05

Caracus2k said:
read my additions picking On 2009 as a reference year for such matters is either to be ignorant or to be deliberately disengenious about what was going on at the time.

2009 was the peak of health spending. Much of the EU dropped spending after that in the wake of the crisis.

We have dropped significantly more, taking us away from the EU average further. Demand for healthcare hasn't stopped increasing in that period.

Caracus2k · 27 Jun 2019 at 17:07

Minstadave said:
2009 was the peak of health spending. All of the EU dropped spending after that in the wake of the crisis.

We have dropped significantly more, taking us away from the EU average further.

It was the peak of health spending as a ratio of GDP because the UK GDP had dropped sharply in that year where as health spending didn't drop!

Its really not difficult

Cherry picking 2009 as a refence point for per GDP figures is a disengenious or ignorant way to make a point.

The only point from the early 1990's we saw any GDP declines was shortly after the 2008 crash

2013 · 27 Jun 2019 at 19:54

Caracus2k said:
So we agree 'austerity' isn't the issue then or are you just trying to be awkward?

No, I think its the management of the NHS from top to bottom is a issue, for example medication can be a big issue, example who need to give it you, the hospital, your GP, the specialist department, home delivery service ? I dont know how many time I've seen them argue who need to give them.

Some things are simple to sort in my option, for 1 is reception at our GP they have a computer check in which was not working for almost 2 years now is and at least 4 reception staff,
How much training would you need to pick up a phone ?

Our GP seam to have 11095 patients if they cant handle them they should improve or be forced to reduce the number of patients and funding for the extras

Online would have been useful if it was sorted a few years back and was simple to sign up.

Patience with long term illness to be given some priority and if you have been giving the same medication for a number of years dont make it so hard to get renewals.
Anything that can be done via a video call should be.

Nothing to do with the GP Another example management is hospitals, one hospital I have been to is fantastic, does not matter which department you visit, from any staff to to how clean they keep it, then on the other end you have the other hospital I have been to a few time, most departments are very rude and seam like they are forced to work, dated 80s/90s in some areas, cleaning could be better and then you will have the odd department that will try the best with what they have and still be nice and polite both departments bang next to each other.

Dr House · 27 Jun 2019 at 19:59

I have been with the same GP for the last 38 years. Generally good. I can get a appointment on the day most of the time. Only problem is that I move all over the country so some times it’s a 2h drive to get there

eviled · 27 Jun 2019 at 21:15

2013 said:
Our GP seam to have 11095 patients if they cant handle them they should improve or be forced to reduce the number of patients and funding for the extras

usually the opposite is the case, most GPs are forced to keep their books open and take on new patients

Monkeynut · 27 Jun 2019 at 22:13

peterwalkley said:
Sounds very like my GP. Over-subscribed and when I am in there its always full of entitled coffin dodgers hogging the appointments and whinging if they're running 5 minutes late (probably a local thing, same in other places too round here). Where ours does seem better than yours:

- Repeat prescriptions are easy. Drop the form in at chemists, collect a few days later.
- Nurse appointments for on-going treatments usually easy to get (Asthma, blood pressure, diabetes etc). Just don't phone before about 10:30 as its still under the DOS attack describe above.
- They are trying to triage appointments, so you'll get a call back from Doctor or Nurse to discuss in more detail.
- There are out of hours options happening. It used to be 8:30 to 4:30 and tough luck to anyone in a job getting a sensible time.
- They will prioritise child appointments. It was always a very noticeable shift in tone when the girls were younger and we needed to see someone.

If this is Westminster Surgery I understand

2013 · 28 Jun 2019 at 02:08

eviled said:
usually the opposite is the case, most GPs are forced to keep their books open and take on new patients

I think that's one of the main problems, you cant take care of the ones you have and are forced to take on more and more, so no one gets any real care,
They are better off just open a drive thru window and allocate patients 5 min and the obligation is covered.

peterwalkley · 28 Jun 2019 at 07:37

Monkeynut said:
If this is Westminster Surgery I understand

Great Sutton, but still the same demographic of crusties :rolleyes:

moon man · 28 Jun 2019 at 07:51

open surgerys here, you go in and wait for a doctor ,my biggest problem is turning up on the wrong day like a numpty

neviditelny · 28 Jun 2019 at 08:09

I've not read all of the thread yet, but another problem is that there is about 5000 GP's short in the country and the amount of Doctor's applying to go through GP training is reducing as well.

Monkeynut · 28 Jun 2019 at 08:43

peterwalkley said:
Great Sutton, but still the same demographic of crusties

I've not been living in Little Sutton long, so I'm about to move surgery, god help me!

wordy · 28 Jun 2019 at 13:14

Bit off topic, but chemists are getting worse. I go into the local one round here and the staff are stood there writing things up or putting stock away, they look up and notice you, but make no effort to serve you, just carry on with what they are doing and leave you stood there.
Happened last Saturday, after waiting a couple of minutes I said to the guy who was stood 6 foot away but completely ignoring me if i could get my prescription please, he just looked at me and said “I’m busy” :mad:

Pipe & Slippers · 28 Jun 2019 at 13:45

^^ Boots used to to rubbish around here so I just swapped to an independent chemist and the service is far better

2013 · 28 Jun 2019 at 15:56

moon man said:
open surgerys here, you go in and wait for a doctor ,my biggest problem is turning up on the wrong day like a numpty

Well it better then going on the right day and getting told we dont have a open surgery anymore. this happen to a family member a few years ago.

wordy said:
Bit off topic, but chemists are getting worse. I go into the local one round here and the staff are stood there writing things up or putting stock away, they look up and notice you, but make no effort to serve you, just carry on with what they are doing and leave you stood there.
Happened last Saturday, after waiting a couple of minutes I said to the guy who was stood 6 foot away but completely ignoring me if i could get my prescription please, he just looked at me and said “I’m busy”

Ive had that happen, Ive also had them take down to me ignore the prescription, had to chase them up a few time for one prescription ect, but its only happened at lloyds pharmacy but we got lucky when a independent pharmacy open up next door to them.

Pipe & Slippers said:
^^ Boots used to to rubbish around here so I just swapped to an independent chemist and the service is far better

I found boots much better then lloyds they can be a little slow but no real issues I would rather go to them but it really depend on the pharmacy.