Video???Honestly? I'm not really fussed which one I end up doing. I'd like to be able to perform both properly though. Low bar squats look cooler to me for some reason though.
*** The 2019 Gym Rats Thread ***
- Thread starter spluff
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Soldato
Getting it done tonight!
Soldato
*chuckles*
Try explaining that to any weightlifter, ever.
I missed where he said he wanted to do the clean and jerk or the snatch. Id imagine oly lifters trained low bar first to get strong in any case.
Edit- just reading into it, maybe they dont after all. hmm interesting.
Q. high bar squat pushes knees more forward putting more strain on the patella tendons. All oly lifters ive seen have short stumpy legs which presumably helps with this. If an individual is long legged is that a reason to avoid high bar?
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Ok - let's start from scratch because it appears you're coming at this from the wrong place. I've posted something similar before a couple of pages back, but it never hurts to restate...
Similarities:
- Make people strong in general
- Promote leg development/gains
- Are awesome when done properly
- Anatomy can be a factor, but there are normally workarounds in both directions
- Low bar is more dependent on the posterior chain; high bar is more quad-dependent; front squat is even more quad-dependent
- Low bar requires more lumbar core strength because of the greater torso angle
- Low bar squatters have been known to double up with discrete quad work, whilst some weightlifters have also been known to do glute/hamstring work to compensate for perceived development imbalances
- Due to the nature of development they can be used in sport-specific contexts
- One is better than the other - nope
- Anatomy - can be true if the lifter is inexperienced
- One is easier on the body than the other - bad form is bad form... lots of people do low bar badly (i.e. a glorified good morning) and think that because their knees no longer hurt that they're doing well.
- Knee damage - bad form is bad form; I've had more injuries from picking things up and playing football than I have from doing either squat form. Knee travel and positioning is a red-herring, caused by some rubbish research into parachute jumping in the 50s or something... bringing the kness in during the descent is a recipe for trouble; on the ascent it doesn't really matter (yes, I know what KStar complains about, and I don't agree with him, either).
The average gym-goer will not suffer from doing either squat, first off because 98% (broadbrush) of them will never lift near their genetic maximum and they'll never really notice the pitfalls of their form in either context. Both are excellent exercises, but both can be done really badly, too.
To answer the specific point about short, stumpy legs... yup, a lot of them do in the same way that the best swimmers have long torsos and arms: at the top level, genetic selection is a thing. You're also probably noticing that most weightlifters have enormous thighs, which skews perception of their size (it's why film stars look like they skip leg day, because the average civilian will thing they're short and stumpy).
To the remaining posters on this: your back/knee/nose/ears probably hurt when you squat because you're not doing it properly, and changing method isn't always a way around it...
Soldato
Oly lifters tend to have very developed legs (obviously) but in terms of limb lengths not every lifter has short femurs relative to their torso, especially a lot of the European and American lifters.
0 high level lifters low bar squat, it's just pointless for them. Also...
EDIT - thingy got in first
Associate
Thought I'd post my set up at home in the garage.
Just need to increase the light thinking about getting led tube lighting & some motivational posters
Not long finished painting all the bricks and breeze blocks white.
I'm currently doing stronglifts
Just need to increase the light thinking about getting led tube lighting & some motivational posters
Not long finished painting all the bricks and breeze blocks white.
I'm currently doing stronglifts
Soldato
So here's a video of how I would squat naturally without the bar.
I can see the big butt wink. Also my chest isn't strong but I think that's because I didn't have a bar on my back so wasn't forcing my shoulders back.
Fix me please. Haha.
I can see the big butt wink. Also my chest isn't strong but I think that's because I didn't have a bar on my back so wasn't forcing my shoulders back.
Fix me please. Haha.
Soldato
Thought I'd post my set up at home in the garage.
Just need to increase the light thinking about getting led tube lighting & some motivational posters
Not long finished painting all the bricks and breeze blocks white.
I'm currently doing stronglifts
Wish my place had a garage, would love to do something like this for myself. Oh well next house maybe!
Feet are too close together, the weight is on your toes, your core bracing needs to be a lot tighter... even though you joke about your chest, if you can't maintain it without a bar (and considering your thoracic angle and pattern change slightly each rep) then you need more work.
If I was being brutal, I would say cut your loads to just the bar until we work this out because you're too loose at the moment. Practically, you probably won't do that, so:
- squat with an empty bar
- put your stance wider than your shoulders and keep your toes at five-to-one
- stick some 1.25/2.5kg plates under your toes and stand a 25kg plate up where your butt would hit
- crank your shoulders back and down and clench like your fighting the biggest battler going
- as you descend (SLOWLY... It should take at least a 3 count) pull your knees up and out so that they travel over and just outside your toes
- keep the weight over your heel (we can get cute as you get better, but your weight is too far forward) and descend until to touch the standing plate
- keep your chest up
- push through your heels imagining a steel wire pulling from them through your butt cheeks to a point between your shoulders...
- if you are correctly balanced, you shouldn't feel the weight in your back at all, only tension... That is what you're after.
Is this going to magically cure you? No. Is it going to take you a couple of months of work to iron this out? Probably, particularly if you're up to the weights in those videos lifting as you are. You are pretty strong, and once you sort your form out you will realise you're actually even stronger.
We got you.
Soldato
Thanks so much!
I've saved your reply into my notes and will attempt to go through it on Monday when I squat again. I'll give it a go on Monday.
What do you mean by toes at "five-to-one"?
I've saved your reply into my notes and will attempt to go through it on Monday when I squat again. I'll give it a go on Monday.
What do you mean by toes at "five-to-one"?
Good news, you don't appear to have an overly curved spin at all. Bad news, its not an excuse
Slow down this movement, I understand you were probably rushing as you didn't want to get busted shirtless squatting in the changing rooms, but yeap, slow things down and think about them as you go.
To add to everything that @mrthingyx has said, you also look to have a little bit of APT, I will offer the explanation for this that stuck with me the best. Imagine your hip line is the rim of a bucket that is full with water, currently your hip angle means you are pouring water out of the front of the bucket. As part of your bracing, you need actively level out your hips, in bucket terms, you don't want to be pouring out any water from the front, or back, when you are in the top most position before you squat.
Soldato
Think of a clock... left foot at 11; right foot at 1.
That makes sense.
Are my toes pointed out too much currently then?Good news, you don't appear to have an overly curved spin at all. Bad news, its not an excuse
Slow down this movement, I understand you were probably rushing as you didn't want to get busted shirtless squatting in the changing rooms, but yeap, slow things down and think about them as you go.
To add to everything that @mrthingyx has said, you also look to have a little bit of APT, I will offer the explanation for this that stuck with me the best. Imagine your hip line is the rim of a bucket that is full with water, currently your hip angle means you are pouring water out of the front of the bucket. As part of your bracing, you need actively level out your hips, in bucket terms, you don't want to be pouring out any water from the front, or back, when you are in the top most position before you squat.
That's exactly why I was rushing it, haha.
I have thought about this. If I drive my crotch forward/up to straighten my hips everything just feels so unnatural, I feel off balance just walking let alone squatting. Is there anything I can do day to day to commit it to muscle memory?
My knee is still shagged and I am not squatting still. Continuing with rest of strong lifts. Any suggestion of other things to add to my programme until I'm squatting again, or just do more of the other lifts?
I'm going to go to docs or physio as it is too long and too painful
I'm going to go to docs or physio as it is too long and too painful
Beach weights. If you can't work your leg biceps, work your chestanbize.
Soldato
Does anyone have any advice for setting the deadlift back down again? Might sound silly but sliding it back down my legs always catches the top of my kneecaps on the way back down because they are quite bony and stick out a bit. Do I need to break at the hips first so the bar passes my knees before I break at the knee?
Thanks
Thanks
Yes.
Soldato
Just had a quick practice with empty bar and even if i keep legs straight its still kinda catching on the top of my kneecap and having to go around it a little. Not sure what i can do about this. Gonna have to lower it more slowly than id like when there is weight on the bar.
Soldato
You need to improve your hip hinge, or at least the correct motor pattern sequence. You hip hinge back until the bar crosses the knee, then you start to flex the knees to get the bar back on the ground.