PCSO'S why even bother.

[Vita]

Two types of society. One which has morals and does the right thing, the other which only cares about themselves and does not want to get involved with anything that does not concern them.

Sadly we have more of the latter than the former.

It's disgusting that this has occured but even in the younger generation police are looked at as bullies and brutalists. They do need more power imo.

 

[Semple]

the other which only cares about themselves and does not want to get involved with anything that does not concern them.

You're clearly missing the point here. Have a read of Steampunks post.

 

[StriderX]

Two types of society. One which has morals and does the right thing, the other which only cares about themselves and does not want to get involved with anything that does not concern them.

Sadly we have more of the latter than the former.

It's disgusting that this has occured but even in the younger generation police are looked at as bullies and brutalists. They do need more power imo.

Probably because the younger generation are being arrested for smoking a plant. But otherwise, no i doubt the UK youth feel the same way as the US youth does.

 

[=XDC=FluphyBunny]

one minor wrinkle at first you think two officers have been setup and taking a kicking by the headline, actually its two pcso's that couldn't restrain A suspected bike thief.

THEY DID RESTRAIN HIM

so ignoring the idiotic question by the inspector, what is the point of pcso's if they arnt physically able to restrain A suspected bike thief,

THEY DID RESTRAIN HIM

so why is it we pay these plastic coppers over £20k a year yet they cant do the job?!

THEY DID DO THEIR JOB

The real question is why do people post threads quoting articles that disprove their own clearly held bias?

Also watch a few videos of police trying to restrain someone. When you have to follow certain boundaries and the person you are trying to restrain doesn't it is not that easy.

The only PCSO's i have known used it as a stepping stone to becoming a police officer so it has its place. Standing in a very rough part of Liverpool guarding a drug house awaiting various services to attend and remove the dead body inside said house is just one of the lovely jobs they get to do (an actual real world example).

Fact is there are terrible PCSO's and their are terrible Policeman.

 

[Vita]

You're clearly missing the point here. Have a read of Steampunks post.

I am not missing the point lol.

 

[Semple]

I am not missing the point lol.

You kind of are... I wouldn't just jump in without a second thought, that doesn't mean i only care about myself for not getting involved. I'm thinking of my loved ones and family and those who would be impacted if i did get involved and became injured or worse killed.

As Steampunk points out, i've not got any training on restraining a person, so even if i'm not injured in the process of restraining, what if i exercise too much force on the suspect and end up killing him - even the police have been caught out on this when they've restrained a suspect and putting too much force on their back and head causing suffocation. You'd be up for a manslaughter charge all because you were trying to help out.

Unfortunately the law isn't exactly clear here with protecting innocent bystanders of any wrong doing.

 

[mmj_uk]

Why would you help? if the suspect claims that you assaulted him in some way those same police you were helping will probably slap some cuffs on you to meet their failing targets and then you'll have to go through a 1-2 year court process in the hope of clearing your name. Besides they shouldn't employ weaklings, why should people put their lives at risk to protect someone who is being paid handsomely to supposedly do the job, it's like hiring a taxi driver who can't drive and then expecting passengers to take the wheel.

 

[TheVoice]

Where's this "You'll just get arrested/charged/imprisoned for trying to help" nonsense coming from? Can any of you provide some actual examples of members of the public stepping in to help, using reasonable force to assist police officers (or PCSOs) and facing charges as a result?

why should people put their lives at risk to protect someone who is being paid handsomely to supposedly do the job

Hilarious. Police and PCSOs are a lot of things, paid handsomely is not one of them.

 

[Janesy B]

Two types of society. One which has morals and does the right thing, the other which only cares about themselves and does not want to get involved with anything that does not concern them.

Sadly we have more of the latter than the former.

It's disgusting that this has occured but even in the younger generation police are looked at as bullies and brutalists. They do need more power imo.

I'm not going through the hassle of possible litigation if I hurt someone by restraining them. I'm not trained.

 

[BowdonUK]

In my younger days I might have helped. But these days why take the risk. Also it depends what he's being arrested for. He stole some ciggies from the local shop, had some cannabis on him etc. If the cops can't restrain him then let him go and find him again another time. If he's that strong to make 2 PCSO's struggle then he might be strong enough to hit me too.

It takes a lot of strength to hold someone down. It's like you have to dominate them physically, and a lot of people aren't able to do this.

Aren't the police armed with batons these days?

 

[Sankari]

PCSOs: when you actually need a real cop, but the Tories have decided it's cheaper to hire glorified traffic wardens instead.

 

[J.B]

Story time! Sorry for the wall of text.

A couple of years ago I stepped in to help a security guard from Tesco who got into a scuffle out on the street. The scumbag hoo had stolen a bottle of vodka pulled a knife and let me tell you, there was a very immediate sense of regret where I went from trying to restrain the guy to trying convince the security guard to back off and just let the guy go.

The guy didn't look that big but I guess adrenaline/drugs were involved because he was easily overpowering the two of us. There was an audience of maybe 30 people gathered round but no one else stepped in. We managed to get him on the ground but the security guard took a nasty cut to the head and was hospitalised, I, amazingly (having never been in a physical fight in my life, though have done restraint training as I volunteer with teenagers), got away with just a graved elbow. However, my girlfriend who was with me and watched it all was in tears for a good 30 minutes and was quite upset with me. By this point other security guards from nearby shops had come out and the police were arriving.

On the topic of proportional self defence, I got a good kick in the guys ribs when he was on the floor, but he was still flaying around and trying to get his knife hand up in the air. In that situation I think anything I did would have been classed as self defence as the guy had a weapon and there were lots of members of public/kids etc nearby.

I personally think in these situations you are unlikely to be found guilty of an offence by a jury of your peers if the person is attacking back, they are posing a risk to yourself and others. I would be more concerned with personal safety than legal repercussions.

I'd like to think I'd do the same thing again but it is an experience that has stayed with me so it's hard to say until push comes to shove. The blade was tiny so unless he went for the jugular or a major artery, I don't think it would do too much damage, but then who's to say a lucky shot or the next guy wont have a bigger knife (insert "that's not a knife, that's a spoon" joke).

 

[TheVoice]

PCSOs: when you actually need a real cop, but the Tories have decided it's cheaper to hire glorified traffic wardens instead.

PCSOs often end up doing a lot of the visible/community policing that people want because police officers simply don't have the time any more. People often say they want "bobbies on the beat" and out of their patrol cars walking around, that's essentially what PCSOs are.

Interestingly they haven't caught on in Scotland, and I'm not sure PSNI has them either (I'd assume not due to threat level alone).

 

[ianh]

Two types of society. One has morals

Nope, both have morals but I'd say that one is more worried by the potential consequences of their actions than the other.

Currently in modern society those consequences can be life changing where as 50+ years ago you could "help a copper" without fear of consequence, but those days are very much long gone. So it's not a lack of morals which prevent people helping, it's a fear of the consequences which does and as human evolution makes fear a big motivator (fight or flight) in the vast majority of people it's no surprise that so few are willing to step in and help.

 

[garsands]

 

[AhhBisto]

I had to step in when 2 "officers" were watching 2 guys get bloody outside nandos waiting for backup. literally a huge crowd of people watching doing **** all, and it was all over owing 20 quid.

The "officers" then walked off when I got one of them to get to the station and the other was gutted he wasn't getting his £20 that day.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

To answer the OP, the role of PCSO's goes beyond just wrestling people to the ground. It's also a stepping stone to a career in the police.
They can't all be Gym rats with a second job as a night club bouncer.

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

and honestly from my experience working with pcso's yes id expected two fully trained officers to do a better job,

Do we have to guess this part or will you tell us? It's perhaps important.

 

[malachi]

the issue for me is the fact two supposed trained pcso's (which the police still keep calling officers even though they arnt) may have needed the general public to help them with A person. like i said above maybe they should hire more physically able pcso's or just hire full time officers with the pcso's wage.



for that sort of money they should be hiring more capable pcso's.

22k to be a PSCO.... No thanks, I was earning 14k more a year when I was police staff doing IT.

They put with some crap I would never would deal with.

 

[d_brennen]

Just lol at the people in here thinking £20k is nearly enough for the nonsense they have to put up with