AMD Zen 2 (Ryzen 3000) - * NO COMPETITOR HINTING *

maklabouhlel · 30 Jun 2019 at 00:00

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
I would wait for reviews - my main worry is peak VRM load of the Ryzen 9 at peak boost. Technically the Ryzen 7 2700X and Ryzen 9 3900X are the same TDP classes,so should be similar in terms of cooling and probably power consumption. However,looking at how the X570 motherboards are built,it could be a harder beast to run.

TDP and power consumption are two different things. 3900X will probably consume more power even though both have a 105 TDP.

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 30 Jun 2019 at 00:06

maklabouhlel said:
TDP and power consumption are two different things. 3900X will probably consume more power even though both have a 105 TDP.

I get what you are saying but you missed my comment on peak VRM loads. One of the advantages of better VRM designs is transients are handled much better,and looking at how the X570 motherboards all on average have much better VRM designs than a lot of B450/X470 motherboards, tells me AMD has pushed a higher requirement becuase of the 12C and 16C models. If the 12C and 16C at peak boost speeds draws more current than a Ryzen 7 2700X then it might cause problems. This is why I won't try and say a B450 or X470 motherboard is fine until we see reviewers test them with the Ryzen 9 3900X.

DragonQ said:
Apparently 5 GbE (not 10 as I originally stated), an OLED display, and an extra vertical M.2 slot. I'm just pointing out they're not the same and the price of one doesn't reflect the price of the other.

The last two bits won't add £400 to the cost of a motherboard especially if they are using a cheaper Ethernet chip.

It cannot be chipset pricing either as we are having sub £200 X570 motherboards too.

Asus are testing the market to see if they can get enough people to buy the Titan equivalent of a motherboard.

humbug · 30 Jun 2019 at 00:30

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

https://www.tomshardware.co.uk/amd-ryzen-5-3600-benchmark-beats-core-i9-9900k,news-61052.html

gronf · 30 Jun 2019 at 00:47

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 30 Jun 2019 at 01:08

Ryzen is held back in gaming by memory-CCX latency,so I really like to see how the doubled L3 cache helps here. Cache latency improvements in Zen+ had a bigger impact on gaming than other kinds of software.

Destination · 30 Jun 2019 at 01:17

That confuses me, why is the intel chip at 3.6, surely those things can do 5? Which should give it about 40% more perf?

robfosters · 30 Jun 2019 at 01:22

Destination said:
That confuses me, why is the intel chip at 3.6, surely those things can do 5? Which should give it about 40% more perf?

Because everything’s running at stock. You don’t put a stock CPU up against an overclocked one and call it a fair contest do you?

humbug · 30 Jun 2019 at 01:25

Destination said:
That confuses me, why is the intel chip at 3.6, surely those things can do 5? Which should give it about 40% more perf?

Its just what the software is reading, its reading the base frequency from the CPU's firmware data.

An interesting thing to note, all the Ryzen CPU's do not have a frequency reading.

Destination · 30 Jun 2019 at 01:27

Interesting. Thats fantastic news, as there will be even better memory kits happening along.

g67575 · 30 Jun 2019 at 05:40

Hi guys, I'm new here.

I'm probably gonna get a Ryzen 5 3600, or maybe a 3700X if single threaded performance is significantly better (upgrading from an i5 4440).

I've been researching if it's worth getting higher frequency RAM such as DDR4 3600. There's a review below, which shows significant peformance improvements in some games and other tasks below, but it's tested on an i7.

https://www.techspot.com/article/1171-ddr4-4000-mhz-performance/page3.html

There's also some benchmarks popping up that seem to show some improvement to scores, when using higher speed RAM.

I've been struggling to find a motherboard that's reasonably priced (say £100 or less) that supports DDR4 3600. The Asus ROG STRIX B450-I GAMING motherboard does support it, but isn't cheap in the UK.

I notice that some cheaper boards support upto DDR4-3466.

So I'm hoping someone can answer the following questions:

1. If I get DDR4 3600 RAM, will this work on a DDR4-3466 or DDR4-3200 capable motherboard, at the lower speed?

2. Are there likely to be cheaper motherboards that support DDR4 3600 RAM when/after the Ryzen 3000 series is released?

3. Do you think it's worth spending a little more to get DDR4-3600 RAM, or should I get DDR4 3200 RAM with a cheaper mobo?

StriderX · 30 Jun 2019 at 06:32

No serious need to buy 3600 Kit, a good b-die 3200 CL14 kit will clock up well enough (3600 CL17 shouldn't be an issue), the problem right now is that there are new dies coming out and new kits being released that might be slightly better or have higher density for similar perf.

I think the best option is just to wait til the 7th roles round though, need some actual information.

There is reddit page that should be taken with a pinch of salt on quality of the 400 series wrt to VRM mainly.

Wrt to Ram speeds, its the CPU that matters well before the MOBO does.

g67575 · 30 Jun 2019 at 06:46

I've seen a 3600mhz kit for a good price, would it work in a 3200 or 3466 compatible motherboard?

Murphy · 30 Jun 2019 at 06:47

DylRicho said:
I think Zen 3 will be the final Ryzen generation on AM4, which will come out next year. So yes, I completely understand your thought process, and agree for the most part. If you plan on keeping the system for half a decade, it would be worth getting a decent board, but there's no need to go overkill.

Personally I'd put my money on Zen 4 being the last AM4 chip, reasons being DDR5 and PCIe 5.0 probably won't be ready in time for a 2021 launch and running with the 7-7-7 theme they'll probably go with a 5-5-5-5 theme (DDR5, PCIe 5.0, AM5, on 5nm).

StriderX · 30 Jun 2019 at 06:51

Murphy said:
Personally I'd put my money on Zen 4 being the last AM4 chip, reasons being DDR5 and PCIe 5.0 probably won't be ready in time for a 2021 launch and running with the 7-7-7 theme they'll probably go with a 5-5-5-5 theme (DDR5, PCIe 5.0, AM5, on 5nm).

Oof 5555 on 5/5, they have to do it.

DylRicho · 30 Jun 2019 at 06:55

McGraw said:
Look, I just hate “gotten” ok! It’s only creeping back into British English after being left for dead, due to people either being taught the wrong words at school or letting media influence affect the way they communicate.

The correct words.*

maklabouhlel said:
TDP and power consumption are two different things. 3900X will probably consume more power even though both have a 105 TDP.

Absolutely. Zen 2 CPU TDPs are calculated at their base frequency, just like Coffee Lake.

humbug said:
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

https://www.tomshardware.co.uk/amd-ryzen-5-3600-benchmark-beats-core-i9-9900k,news-61052.html

Holy ****. PassMark has historically been ****** on Ryzen, so to see this means more than it may seem.

** Fully star out all swearing **

Going further into the three tests;

Code:

+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Motherboard      | Gigabyte B450 AORUS M                                                   |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Processor        | Ryzen 5 3600                                                            |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Memory           | 2 x 8 GiB G.SKILL Flare X DDR4-3200; CAS 14 (8.75 ns) [F4-3200C14-8GFX] |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Graphics Card    | NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080                                                 |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Storage          | 240 GiB Crucial BX500 [CT240BX500SSD1]                                  |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| PassMark Score   | 5,334                                                                   |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| CPU Mark         | 21,133                                                                  |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 2D Graphics Mark | 750                                                                     |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 3D Graphics Mark | 15,977                                                                  |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Memory Mark      | 2,979                                                                   |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| DiskMark         | 3,278                                                                   |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Motherboard      | Gigabyte B450 AORUS M                                                               |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Processor        | Ryzen 5 3600                                                                        |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Memory           | 1 x 8 GiB Crucial Ballistix Sport DDR4-2667; CAS 16 (12.00 ns) [BLS8G4D26BFSTK.8FD] |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Graphics Card    | NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080                                                             |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Storage          | 240 GiB Crucial BX500 [CT240BX500SSD1]                                              |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| PassMark Score   | 4,930                                                                               |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| CPU Mark         | 19,620                                                                              |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 2D Graphics Mark | 753                                                                                 |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 3D Graphics Mark | 14,397                                                                              |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Memory Mark      | 2,171                                                                               |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Disk Mark        | 3,368                                                                               |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Motherboard      | Gigabyte B450 AORUS M                                                               |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Processor        | Ryzen 5 3600                                                                        |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Memory           | 1 x 8 GiB Crucial Ballistix Sport DDR4-2667; CAS 16 (12.00 ns) [BLS8G4D26BFSTK.8FD] |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Graphics Card    | Unknown, but scores low                                                             |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Storage          | 240 GiB Crucial BX500 [CT240BX500SSD1]                                              |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| PassMark Score   | 4,138                                                                               |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| CPU Mark         | 19,650                                                                              |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 2D Graphics Mark | 717                                                                                 |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| 3D Graphics Mark | 2,285                                                                               |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Memory Mark      | 2,151                                                                               |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Disk Mark        | 2,950                                                                               |
+------------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Destination said:
That confuses me, why is the intel chip at 3.6, surely those things can do 5? Which should give it about 40% more perf?

PassMark reports the base frequency and the maximum turbo frequency of the processor.

g67575 said:
Hi guys, I'm new here.

[...]

So I'm hoping someone can answer the following questions:

1. If I get DDR4 3600 RAM, will this work on a DDR4-3466 or DDR4-3200 capable motherboard, at the lower speed?

2. Are there likely to be cheaper motherboards that support DDR4 3600 RAM when/after the Ryzen 3000 series is released?

3. Do you think it's worth spending a little more to get DDR4-3600 RAM, or should I get DDR4 3200 RAM with a cheaper mobo?

Welcome!

1) It should, but no promises. Reviews will be here in 8 days!

2) Yes. The B550 chipset will coexist with cheaper boards (no PCIe 4.0). Looking at the prices of these X570 boards, I think I may hold off to see what B550 boards there will be.

3) Looking at the data above, DDR4-3200 CAS 14 does appear to perform exceptionally well. Again, wait for reviews before making your final decision, but right now I would say unless the price difference is minimal, I wouldn't bother.

Murphy said:
Personally I'd put my money on Zen 4 being the last AM4 chip, reasons being DDR5 and PCIe 5.0 probably won't be ready in time for a 2021 launch and running with the 7-7-7 theme they'll probably go with a 5-5-5-5 theme (DDR5, PCIe 5.0, AM5, on 5nm).

Now that you say that, it does make a lot of marketing sense for them to do that.

Escalibran · 30 Jun 2019 at 06:59

StriderX said:
Oof 5555 on 5/5, they have to do it.

More importantly for this theorizing: is the MSI Godlike with this hypothetical upcoming socket going down to $555.55 or up to $5555.55?

DylRicho · 30 Jun 2019 at 07:01

Escalibran said:
More importantly for this theorizing: is the MSI Godlike with this hypothetical upcoming socket going down to $555.55 or up to $5555.55?

Most likely up.

StriderX · 30 Jun 2019 at 07:03

I wish there was way to calculate effective latency with this chonking cache though, raw latency seems to be misleading.

Murphy · 30 Jun 2019 at 07:05

DylRicho said:
Absolutely. Zen 2 CPU TDPs are calculated at their base frequency, just like Coffee Lake.

Not really, AMD use TDP = (Load Temperature in Celsius – Idle Temperature in Celcius) / Thermal Capacity of Cooler.

Of course, as mentioned in that Anandtech link, the difference in TDP could just be down to the different coolers (stealth, spire, prism) that come bundled with each CPU, i doubt it but until we get some reviews we won't know for sure.

DylRicho · 30 Jun 2019 at 07:12

Murphy said:
Not really, AMD use TDP = (Load Temperature in Celsius – Idle Temperature in Celcius) / Thermal Capacity of Cooler.

It seems to be a change from Zen and Zen+, just as Coffee Lake was a change from the way it was calculated with Kaby Lake.

The 3950X has a 300 MHz deficit on the base frequency, but 4 additional cores. Unless AMD is using some absolute overkill cooler for these calculations (which they would have to reuse for even the Athlons, and would be highly impractical), then it makes no logical sense for it to be otherwise.

Competitor rules

AMD Zen 2 (Ryzen 3000) - *** NO COMPETITOR HINTING ***

AMD Zen 2 (Ryzen 3000) - * NO COMPETITOR HINTING *