What happened to manual transmissions?

[Demon]

Having recently driven a Focus 1.0 ecoboost with their new 8 speed auto (excellent btw), I'm pretty sure it's to allow lower emissions to be achieved. Obviously having an 8 speed manual would be tiresome, and lets face it, the auto will help you get better fuel economy if no effort being put in..

And as mentioned, reliability and efficiency are now at the point it's preferable to the manual in most cases, so why not..

One big advantage IMO is that I trust the auto to look after the drive train a bit better than the manual where it has nothing to stop you being brutal!

On the auto vs manual for spirited driving, well I am on the fence, I've been a die hard manual for a long time, and jumping in DCT/DST/ZF8HP equipped quick cars (or even things like the Mrs X3) you have to drive a little differently, the times I find myself fighting to not go for the clutch would be initial launches and also if really coming in hot and braking to the apex, I often use the clutch to regulate additional engine braking for balance. But, adjust your driving style, treat it a bit more like an F1 car and things are still entertaining!

The thrill of driving quickly is equally about just balancing the car, picking the right line and getting maximum speed through the twisties, and the auto doesn't have to get in the way of that.

 

[Cleisthenes]

Just the way things are moving, automation and /performance/ numbers as well as removing one more interaction with the driver. In the future people will be very lazy about driving, the standards are already low as it is. I suppose it won't matter as self driving cars will be more commonplace then.

No greater feeling than working through the gears manually on a spirited drive around some back roads

Heel and toeing like the driving gods we are

 

[Alibaba99]

Yep and puts most of the auto, AWD cars to shame on a track.

It's track performance is mainly down to the cornering grip and brakes.

 

[Firestar_3x]

They really aren't. Make sure the DSG service is done on time and mechatronics failures are rare.

Clutches routinely last 250k miles and dual mass flywheels 80-100k miles which is no different to a manual

Mechatronics are probably the most likely thing to go wrong, cost to sort, less than 1k.

Cost to change a clutch and dual mass flywheel on a manual car around 1k, my last one needed doing at 100k.

Those DSGs are sure expensive...........

 

[paradigm]

Mechatronics are probably the most likely thing to go wrong, cost to sort, less than 1k.

Cost to change a clutch and dual mass flywheel on a manual car around 1k, my last one needed doing at 100k.

Those DSGs are sure expensive...........

Quite.

I had the one on the TT fully rebuilt with a refurbished mechatronic, new clutch pack, new flywheel, oil, filters etc, and the total was well under £2k.

But previous scare stories and historic pricing of parts and labor from back when the ‘boxes were new still put people off because they heard so from Bob at the pub.

 

[Uncle_Gravy]

I'm a manual person, love a good manual box, but when you're stuck in stop start traffic for an hour mon-fri.....I miss our old automatic accord.

 

[jigger]

The Megane RS and Trophy are other options.

 

[Frozennova]

Mechatronics are probably the most likely thing to go wrong, cost to sort, less than 1k.

Cost to change a clutch and dual mass flywheel on a manual car around 1k, my last one needed doing at 100k.

Those DSGs are sure expensive...........

Confused....

I was agreeing with that notion that DSGs ARE reliable and not particularly expensive to maintain

 

[Maccy]

PDK FTW

 

[MissChief]

Confused....

I was agreeing with that notion that DSGs ARE reliable and not particularly expensive to maintain

Servicing for a manual clutch and gearbox? Generally none. Servicing for a DSG? More often than that.

 

[squerble]

Recently switched from manual to auto with my Focus 1.0 TitX. It's a 6-speed conventional auto (slushbox with torque converter) as opposed to the dual-clutch Powershift and it's actually quite nice, a world apart from the older 4-speed that was plonked into every Ford/GM car over the last few years. I've driven an M135i with the ZF8 so know what a good box feels like, and the one in my Focus isn't on par, as one should expect. That said, it's been more than good enough for me as my commute is about 8 miles but takes nearly 45 minutes due to stop-start traffic through a city centre. You can see the torque converter lockup happening just after the change into second gear so aside from 1st, it's essentially a direct-drive gearbox anyway. If I want any kind of fun then I can put it in Sport mode which quickens up the changes and then mine was bought with the paddle shift option so I can just flick up and down using the steering wheel controls. The response time is hilarious but easy to compensate for. The 1.0 Ecoboost has peak torque from 1400-4500RPM which seems to suit the 'box well.

Wouldn't have another manual now.

 

[jigger]

PDK FTW

In a Panamera maybe. 718 S manual > others.

 

[Maccy]

In a Panamera maybe. 718 S manual > others.

911, I'm getting old and lazy though.

 

[Firestar_3x]

Confused....

I was agreeing with that notion that DSGs ARE reliable and not particularly expensive to maintain

A manual car will need a dual mass flywheel change and clutch at some-point.

A DSG car clutch pack will probably last the life of the car (depending on type), if the box does go wrong it will cost about the same to fix as a flywheel and clutch change on a manual, therefore i agree that a DSG box is not expensive to maintain.

 

[Firestar_3x]

Quite.

I had the one on the TT fully rebuilt with a refurbished mechatronic, new clutch pack, new flywheel, oil, filters etc, and the total was well under £2k.

But previous scare stories and historic pricing of parts and labor from back when the ‘boxes were new still put people off because they heard so from Bob at the pub.

Indeed.

 

[Frozennova]

A manual car will need a dual mass flywheel change and clutch at some-point.

A DSG car clutch pack will probably last the life of the car, if the box does go wrong it will cost about the same to fix as a flywheel and clutch change on a manual, therefore i agree that a DSG box is not expensive to maintain.

All muddled, we have the same opinion. I wouldn't have a manual for commuting anymore

Servicing for a manual clutch and gearbox? Generally none. Servicing for a DSG? More often than that.

£100 for a DIY DSG service every 40k miles, MX5 is £65ish for DIY gearbox and diff oil changes on the same 40k mile interval. The difference is hardly worth thinking about

 

[jigger]

All muddled, we have the same opinion. I wouldn't have a manual for commuting anymore



£100 for a DIY DSG service every 40k miles, MX5 is £65ish for DIY gearbox and diff oil changes on the same 40k mile interval. The difference is hardly worth thinking about

We’ll you are servicing the rear diff on the MX5 too.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

A manual car will need a dual mass flywheel change and clutch at some-point.

A DSG car clutch pack will probably last the life of the car (depending on type), if the box does go wrong it will cost about the same to fix as a flywheel and clutch change on a manual, therefore i agree that a DSG box is not expensive to maintain.

I think it very much depends on what the traffic is and how its driven. My other half has got over 130k miles from her last 3 cars, original clutches.
I however seem to manage way less, like 80k. Although I buy sporty versions, and drive them pretty hard, I also change gear a fair amount, (country road type commute) where as she spends 95% of her time driving up and down A roads and Mways.

I looks to me like in recent cars the auto boxes are over engineered, where as the manuals are at minimum engineering now.

I must admit I have relented, next car will be an auto. I was lent the same cars as mine by the garage, but with the auto box. On my commute I actually really liked it, I was quite surprised how much I was annoyed by having to change gear when I got mine back. So much so that I am even debating still changing my plan about when I get my next car, just to move to an auto.
I would describe it as this, when I want to drive at 9/10 10th then the changing gear, getting the gear right on entry to a corner for the acceleration coming out feels great. But when your just driving along normally then its a pain, occasionally I wont change gear then it bogs down, I am like GRRR and change gear, off we go. The auto (in sport mode) was like the doing it right most of the time, but on exit it was always on it, it just changed as needed on the exit rather than me having to do it on the entry to avoid having to change gear on the bexit before I accelerated.

It felt faster as well, yes its technically quicker anyway, but felt faster than it should have, I guess because its getting the gears right more often, and the extra gears and therefore closer ratios meant it was closer to the ideal gear more often than I would be manually.

Some of the audi tuners now tune the boxes as well when changing engine maps (above stage 1 I believe), faster switches, more clamping force etc.

 

[jigger]

The new Focus ST is another manual car. The current ST line 1.5T (190hp) is manual too.

 

[Frozennova]

We’ll you are servicing the rear diff on the MX5 too.

That's the cost of oil for the diff and gearbox