Work issue, lunch breaks, would you be annoyed?
- Thread starter Scam
- Start date
For all you know there might well be an existing rule in say a company handbook or contract (this isn't exactly uncommon) etc.. that employees need to take lunch between X and Y times, the company might well have been unaware previously that he was taking lunch at this time until it became an issue... the consent of both parties works both ways - if they didn't consent in the first place to the late lunch and/or had a rule prohibiting it then then does it actually count as far as establishing some implied contract term? I'd suspect not otherwise you could attempt to unilaterally change all sorts of working practices on the basis that they've not caught you doing so yet.
What are you referring to here/what would you be annoyed about?
That's what I'm going to try today. I guess I should give it a go before getting annoyed.
And I got woken up by two voicemails and a text to my personal phone from my other boss in the US this morning. You don't know the half of it
No I bring in lunch and work through whilst eating it. Then go out for my hour later.
We deal a lot with LA so I'm always mindful of being back for 4pm. My direct manager is based there. But we help support a platform and the incidents that came up is because even though we pay the vendor for support I'm still the go-to guy/friendly face in the office for assistance(Usually user error)
Bringing my earlier suggestion up again, if it's core US hours you need to be available for, then can't you go for your swim at 11am and then have lunch when you return? You'll be online well before the US wakes up then.
Soldato
Doesn't matter, Custom and Practice overrides it.
It would be pretty negligent of the company to not realise he'd been taking mid-afternoon lunch breaks for 4 years. That's not holding up in a contract law case unless they could show that he was deliberately hiding it.
No offence but is anyone else getting George Costanza vibes from Seinfeld?
Scam's Bosses Boss: "Where's scam? We have a important call from Cali that needs dealing with"
Scam's Boss: "He's...., ahem, swimming sir."
Scam's Bosses Boss:"Swimming, but it's almost 4pm, bit late for a lunch break isn't it? Anyway, didn't I see him eating his lunch at his desk a few hours ago?"
Scam's boss: "Ahh yes that's his desk lunch, his lunch-lunch is spent at the gym."
Scam's bosses boss: "But I eat my lunch at my desk too and that's good enough for me. Didn't you tell him he can't have lunch break after 2.30pm?"
Scam's boss: "Yes but if he swims too soon after his first lunch break, his tummy hurts during his second lunch break."
Scam's bosses boss: *speechless*
Only playing around here, I don't mean to be critical, just having some fun, but couldn't help think of George Costanza sleeping under his desk and going to the gym at lunch.
Scam's Bosses Boss: "Where's scam? We have a important call from Cali that needs dealing with"
Scam's Boss: "He's...., ahem, swimming sir."
Scam's Bosses Boss:"Swimming, but it's almost 4pm, bit late for a lunch break isn't it? Anyway, didn't I see him eating his lunch at his desk a few hours ago?"
Scam's boss: "Ahh yes that's his desk lunch, his lunch-lunch is spent at the gym."
Scam's bosses boss: "But I eat my lunch at my desk too and that's good enough for me. Didn't you tell him he can't have lunch break after 2.30pm?"
Scam's boss: "Yes but if he swims too soon after his first lunch break, his tummy hurts during his second lunch break."
Scam's bosses boss: *speechless*
Only playing around here, I don't mean to be critical, just having some fun, but couldn't help think of George Costanza sleeping under his desk and going to the gym at lunch.
Soldato
Swim then eat you unreasonable monster.
Given his direct manager is in another country it seems pretty reasonable that it might well not be flagged up until it was a problem.
I'm not buying this idea that you can unilaterally decide to do something, even if it breaks an existing rule and then it somehow becomes an established implied term and requires both parties to mutually consent to change it. Do you have any examples of where this has stood up in a tribunal/court case - where someone has apparently established some custom and practice without the employer being aware of the new custom and practice until it had already been established for some time and then challenged by them?
I mean sure, if they allowed it then that's a different argument... but the idea you can unilaterally introduce an implied term/working practice/whatever seems very dubious.
lol ain't gonna happen. Morning person I am not!
Serious question - why? It's not like I tag my 1hr lunch onto the end of my day and just essentially leave early. I was coming back at 4pm and doing a boatload of work with LA until 6.30pm. I actually have a call at 7.30pm tonight, again first world problems. It's an easygoing office environment, nobody bats an eyelid if people rock up at 10am as long as they kinda make up the hours and don't take the mick. We're not clock-watchers, so I was surprised it came up.
It's a good idea, but my boss here is more concerned that I'm available to people in our office in London. He's aware that if his boss can't find me for help and all he's got is "he might be out at the gym -dunno-) then it looks bad on him. I guess...
Well yes. As above really. I understand where he's coming from I think when he articulated it first of all it was like "wait you don't want me to have a lunch break at all just in case something happens and people need me whaa"
PS: Just got back form a swim and although it was much busier it was kinda do-able. Swimming before lunch actually felt a little better although I forgot to wear my watch so no idea how well I did
EDIT:
My boss here is a sensible guy. He didn't tell me I couldn't do it, just made it very clear that it reflects badly on me (and him) if something comes up and I'm out mid-afternoon. He hasn't forced me to do anything, we just had an adult conversation about it and he pushed his view that going out between 12-2.30pm would be much better for everyone.
Soldato
Have you got 'core hours' in your contract/ employee hand book? We have 10-12 then 2-4, outside that we can manage our time as we want.
Soldato
Essentially, if it's been accepted then it's been part of the working conditions. OP doesn't make any suggestion that his boss wasn't aware.
I know, I'm pointing out that you don't know either way and made a point about the case where they don't know. You've made a claim there and I don't think you're correct, I was just wondering if you had anything to back up that position?
I'm not arguing against the position where it is agreed/known and becomes standard practice over a few years then they want to change it.
I'm also very interested in finding this out.
If I started leaving at 4pm instead of 5pm, and no one said anything then how long would it take before it's my new contract and the norm?
I'm with dowie on this and it sounds very dubious.
Soldato
Why did you even start this hypothetical? Just derailing the thread again
Given your penchant for this Custom & Practice stuff you mention, do you have any sauce to go with it?
Soldato
google "Custom and practice contract law"
But here's an outline:
https://www.peninsulagrouplimited.com/guides/custom-and-practice/