Which ~15k Hot Hatch?

iaind · 8 Jul 2019 at 09:01

Hey All

I started thinking a while ago about changing my 2014 Mazda3 2.2D, my mileage is dropping due to a new job and I was originally concerned about DPF issues with short journeys. But once I started thinking about it, I realised the idea of having something more fun was really appealing. I started looking at things like a Mercedes C350 (like hens teeth) and the A4 2.0 TFSI. However, as people here rightly pointed out, spending 15k on a ~2012 car is not that appealing, especially after looking at a few and seeing messy paintwork and filthy interiors...

After driving a Focus ST on Saturday, I've realised its a hot hatch that I'm really wanting. I want something that can be as practical and easy to run as my Mazda, that's not painful on longer trips but can still be a good laugh when I want it to be. I'm not young any more so I dont want anything too lary looking either! I'm looking to spend 15-17k for something a few years newer than my Mazda if possible. I've only come up with the following

- Focus ST. Low mileage 16 Reg ST-3 models are about £15k. Have all the kit I want as standard. In some colours they look quite grown up, the one I drove was silver which looked great, I wouldnt have a "tangerine scream" one though! Felt great, nice noise but nice and quiet when not using it. It did struggle to get the power down in 1st and 2nd, a common complaint on these but probably made worse by the brand new "Event" tyres the dealer had fitted.

- Golf GTI. The obvious choice for a grown up all round hot hatch. The main downside to these is the price, it looks like I'd be spending £16-17k to get a 15-16 year car. Apparently the "performance pack" is well worth having for the LSD, cars with that, a manual gearbox and in a decent colour are few and far between. They have everything I'd need as standard except heated seats, not sure if other options like posher nav are worthwhile. Would probably have the strongest residuals to counter the higher purchase price.

- Octavia VRS. The Golf GTi in different clothes? Sounds like it comes with a diff that's similar to the one in the Golf but most reviews criticise it for feeling less dynamic than the Golf. However, £14-15k for a 16 year car is much more appealing. Same deal with the options as the golf.

Which would you have? Are there any cars I'm missing? I'm guessing the 2.0 TSI in the Golf and Octavia is a bit less troublesome than in older cars?

Thanks all!

Raymond Lin · 8 Jul 2019 at 09:13

I'd take the Focus. Find the colour that you like, job done.

Otherwise I'd be looking at BMW 135i, it's within budget.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201907049733043?maximum-badge-engine-size=3.0&aggregatedTrim=M135i&minimum-badge-engine-size=3.0&minimum-mileage=5000&radius=1500&year-from=2010&price-to=20000&postcode=hr11hb&advertising-location=at_cars&make=BMW&body-type=Hatchback&sort=datedesc&model=1 SERIES&transmission=Automatic&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=New&seller-type=trade&maximum-mileage=60000&page=1

This one has better Nav.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classi...de=hr11hb&make=BMW&body-type=Hatchback&page=1

bazzabear · 8 Jul 2019 at 09:20

No-one will agree with me, but I'd buy an Alfa 147 GTA, with the money you're looking to spend and what you want out of it.

Will be an appreciating asset too. Mind you, you'd be spending the money on an even older car than you were citing at the end of your post.

[TW]Fox · 8 Jul 2019 at 09:22

bazzabear said:
No-one will agree with me, but I'd buy an Alfa 147 GTA,

He's decided against the idea of a C350 because he isn't keen on a 2012 car and you suggest something from 2003?

dale1uk · 8 Jul 2019 at 09:26

Renaultsport Megane?

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201905037600684?atmobcid=soc3

iaind · 8 Jul 2019 at 09:31

Thanks Fox, quite surprised the 135i is in budget

I had avoided looking at them for one reason and maybe you can offer some insight - it's the seats. I get some back problems from time to time. I'm fine in most cars although heated seats are a must for this reason. But there's something about the F30 - in the last few years I've driven a 320D M Sport, a 318i Sport and a 335D M sport. Every time, without fail, after 30 minutes my back is in agony. I don't know what it is, I don't find them subjectively uncomfortable but I was ruling out the 1 on this basis, assuming the seats were the same. Is this something you've ever heard others report and is there an answer?

On the 135i, are they generally reliable? I remember some of the complex BMW engines could be a bit of a liability!

Raymond Lin · 8 Jul 2019 at 09:33

You can always get the warranty if worried about reliability?

Dominic-Toretto · 8 Jul 2019 at 09:34

Another vote for the M135i

iaind · 8 Jul 2019 at 09:35

dale1uk said:
Renaultsport Megane?

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201905037600684?atmobcid=soc3

Probably great to drive but doesn't fit the bill of being grown up! Could do with 5 doors too (sorry didn't mention that before)

iaind · 8 Jul 2019 at 09:37

Raymond Lin said:
You can always get the warranty if worried about reliability?

Not worried really, just curious if there's any "wallet emptying" issues to watch out for. I'm quite comfortable with the fact a car like this will cost more to run and maintain than my current one. Although am I right in thinking I could buy a BMW warranty on a car like that?

Raymond Lin · 8 Jul 2019 at 09:38

iaind said:
Not worried really, just curious if there's any "wallet emptying" issues to watch out for. I'm quite comfortable with the fact a car like this will cost more to run and maintain than my current one. Although am I right in thinking I could buy a BMW warranty on a car like that?

I am going to leave the reliability thing to someone who own one to answer, but I know you can get the BMW warranty (under 60k for the cheaper one), unless things have changed recently.

iaind · 8 Jul 2019 at 09:42

Raymond Lin said:
I am going to leave the reliability thing to someone who own one to answer, but I know you can get the BMW warranty (under 60k for the cheaper one), unless things have changed recently.

Thought so, thanks

I'll add it to my "maybe" list and see if I can work out how to stop it destroying my back!

GuruJockStrap · 8 Jul 2019 at 12:57

Leon Cupra? Peugeot 308 GTi?

layte · 8 Jul 2019 at 13:04

Golf R

dacads · 8 Jul 2019 at 13:26

bazzabear said:
No-one will agree with me, but I'd buy an Alfa 147 GTA, with the money you're looking to spend and what you want out of it.

Will be an appreciating asset too. Mind you, you'd be spending the money on an even older car than you were citing at the end of your post.

Age is an issue for OP but I'd agree with you , those are a rare breed and one of a kind.

I already have a 6 cylinder hatch but I feel the GTA would be a different beast altogether.

azazl187 · 8 Jul 2019 at 13:27

Civic type r 2015 edition.

Havana_UK · 8 Jul 2019 at 13:38

I suspect that your back problems you experienced in the F30 might at least be partly down to the offset pedal position, and it is unfortunately slightly more exaggerated in the F20/21 1-series. This causes you to sit with your feet pointing slightly to the right of the straight ahead position, which will be putting at least some strain on your lower back.

As for reliability, I do not believe there are any horror stories about the N55 engine used in the M135i (except for a few which have blown on track, and this I understand is primarily the result of oil starvation during fast corners). You can buy the BMW fully comp warranty on anything with <100K miles, though it's significantly cheaper to buy for a <60K miles car.

I drove an M135i for 70k miles, and I loved it. It's a really nice package of economy and performance, and whilst many of the "toys" are not standard, there's not a shortage of cars available with the right options you want. I only changed it because I had the opportunity to get an M3 (which I've also done about 35k miles in since!).

Having said the above, in your particular circumstances I think I'd be more tempted to go for the slightly more grown-up Golf GTI. At least try to see if you can get a 1 series (any one will do) for a day to see how the seating position feels, but I'm not sure it will be for you.

Tek81 · 8 Jul 2019 at 14:34

Personally, I'd forget the whole "hot hatch" side of things and get an M3.

iaind · 8 Jul 2019 at 14:59

GuruJockStrap said:
Leon Cupra? Peugeot 308 GTi?

Have added the Cupra to my list, although not sure why I'd have it over a Golf or Skoda. It seems to be the same price as the golf, give or take. And yes the headline power is higher but in the real world I'm not sure how much it would make a difference... can close the gap with a remap. I do like them though but I think I'd still have a golf for the same price or a skoda for less money.

Not sure on the pug, will read a bit about them but cant say I'm drawn to them. Depreciation will be a killer on those I'm sure

layte said:
Golf R

More expensive than the GTi which is already relatively expensive for what it is. If I wanted to max the budget on an older car I'd struggle to justify it over the BMW (seats/back issue notwithstanding). Weirdly I think I prefer the GTi styling wise too, seems to be a bit more grown up and "down to earth" and I like things like the tartan seats

azazl187 said:
Civic type r 2015 edition.

Link to a 15k one?

iaind · 8 Jul 2019 at 15:04

Havana_UK said:
I suspect that your back problems you experienced in the F30 might at least be partly down to the offset pedal position, and it is unfortunately slightly more exaggerated in the F20/21 1-series. This causes you to sit with your feet pointing slightly to the right of the straight ahead position, which will be putting at least some strain on your lower back.

As for reliability, I do not believe there are any horror stories about the N55 engine used in the M135i (except for a few which have blown on track, and this I understand is primarily the result of oil starvation during fast corners). You can buy the BMW fully comp warranty on anything with <100K miles, though it's significantly cheaper to buy for a <60K miles car.

I drove an M135i for 70k miles, and I loved it. It's a really nice package of economy and performance, and whilst many of the "toys" are not standard, there's not a shortage of cars available with the right options you want. I only changed it because I had the opportunity to get an M3 (which I've also done about 35k miles in since!).

Having said the above, in your particular circumstances I think I'd be more tempted to go for the slightly more grown-up Golf GTI. At least try to see if you can get a 1 series (any one will do) for a day to see how the seating position feels, but I'm not sure it will be for you.

Thanks for that, really appreciate it. I'm not sure how I could get one for a day realistically... a used car garage isnt going to give me a 24 hour test drive and obviously any new test drives or rentals would be the F40. Also dont know anyone with one so that option is out

Your explanation makes complete sense though as its always lower back pain, I just never noticed the offset pedals as most of the ones I've driven have been autos. I might park the idea for now

At the moment I think it'll be GTi or ST. Both seem to get glowing reviews and will hold value well, the GTi always seems to be hailed as the perfect all-rounder so its a coin flip between the 2 at the moment.

Just need to get my Mazda sold