Ships under attack in the middle east

[stockhausen]

A nuke dropped in the Middle East would solve so many of the world's problems. C'mon Trump you can do it.

That would certainly satisfy Agent Orange's undertaking to keep America out of future Middle Eastern conflicts.

He could then go on and repeat the exercise in North Korea, China, Russia and wherever all those disloyal, anti-American "Squad" Women come from

Nah, pull out completely, stop buying their oil, stop selling them weapons and . . .

I believe that America buys next to no oil or gas from the Middle East these days. However, I suspect that US "Defence" companies would be VERY upset if they couldn't flog weapons to the Middle East.

 

[Amnesia]

A nuke dropped in the Middle East would solve so many of the world's problems. C'mon Trump you can do it.

Then who would the allies go to war with?

 

[Vern1961]

Nuking millions of innocent people is not going to solve anything, but I suspect despite it being played down, military action or escalation is likely at some point. Wonder where our subs are in all this. Surely they have the capability to take out an Iranian naval vessel before they even knew what hit them.

 

[Dis86]

Then who would the allies go to war with?

Russia

 

[ianh]

Nuking millions of innocent people is not going to solve anything, but I suspect despite it being played down, military action or escalation is likely at some point. Wonder where our subs are in all this. Surely they have the capability to take out an Iranian naval vessel before they even knew what hit them.

The vessels involved during the capture phase have all been glorified speedboats, not the sort of thing a nuclear sub is ideally designed to deal with due to their speed/manoeuvrability/size/shallow draft etc.

 

[The Funktopus]

If only Agent Orange hadn't decided to renege on Obama's Iran nuclear deproliferation deal out of sheer spite.

Still, at least the nutter wants to keep his snout out of the Middle East

Well, there’s that, but as the present situation shows, we seem to have no control over that, and just do as we’re told instead.

 

[dowie]

This I would like you to explain as my first thought is what do you mean, that Iran wanted the tanker arrested and the UK fell into the trap? But I doubt you mean this.

I meant from the UK perspective.

Again, why would they enter EU waters if they knew of this interpretation of the sanctions?

I don't think the EU sanctions are all that clear on this precise matter.

Perhaps they didn't expect to be found out - they're not telepathic, they don't know that the UK and US know that they're smuggling to Syria do they. Perhaps one of the international crew is secretly working for the US/UK and deliberately helped set the trap etc.. It doesn't particularly matter why, we don't know why, this is just pointless speculation.

 

[dowie]

That's funny. All I saw was @Minusorange having to patiently explain to you that Article 42 does not mean what you say it means.

The Grace 1 wasn't doing any of those things.

completely irrelevant - you're quoting a post related to transit passage with regards to the strait where there are no international waters between Spain and Morocco

again - the ship entered Gibraltar's waters, Gibraltar is an EU member

 

[Rroff]

A nuke dropped in the Middle East would solve so many of the world's problems. C'mon Trump you can do it.

Careful what you wish for - Trump has several times said he wants to one up previous US presidents as well as spite Obama. Dropping a MOAB didn't seem to satisfy him very long.

 

[Danny75]

Legislation adhered to for the capture of the Grace 1:

https://www.gibraltarlaws.gov.gi/articles/2019s131.pdf

Date of publication and commencement: 3rd of July. One day before the capture.

Shipping sanctions.
6.(1) A Specified Ship
-
(a)
must be
detained if it is in BGTW;
(b)
may not leave BGTW unless it is permitted to do so by an order
of the court or where the notice designating the ship as a
Specified Ship has been revoked.

It's one thing to make laws, and then let the chips fall where they may. This is different.

It seems that without this legislation, enforcing existing EU sanctions in the way that was done, may not have been legally possible for the chief minister of Gibraltar.

Makes a mockery of the idea that there's nothing more going on here other than enforcement of long-existing EU sanctions.

 

[Danny75]

Two Chinese and three Russian military aircraft are reported to have approached South Korean airspace this evening, with one or possibly more Russian aircraft breaching its airspace twice. South Korea's air force fired warning shots.

Accident? Or message? "You hit one of our friends (Iran) and we could hit one of yours (South Korea)."

Officials in Seoul have described the incursion by a warplane as an "unprecedented" act.

https://news.sky.com/story/warning-...craft-violates-south-korean-airspace-11768629

Doesn't really look like an accident that's for sure. Other sources are mentioning the Chinese aircraft as well. Sky News hasn't included that as of time of posting.

No comment from Russia or China as of yet. Wonder if they will or are adopting the Israeli practice of not commenting and letting actions do the talking.

 

[Rroff]

China/Russia ain't hitting South Korea - that is a war neither wants.

 

[Dis86]

completely irrelevant - you're quoting a post related to transit passage with regards to the strait where there are no international waters between Spain and Morocco

again - the ship entered Gibraltar's waters, Gibraltar is an EU member

Aw Dowie you spoiled it. I was trying to see if he could work it out for himself.

He couldn't.

 

[dowie]

Legislation adhered to for the capture of the Grace 1:

https://www.gibraltarlaws.gov.gi/articles/2019s131.pdf

Date of publication and commencement: 3rd of July. One day before the capture.

so what?

you really are grasping here, first you're worried about whether ship owners knew about sanctions on Syria, then you revert back to some flawed argument that presumes the ship wasn't stopped in Gibraltar but was using right of transit passage... now you're quibbling because Gibraltar needed some subsidiary legislation in order to enforce the EU sanctions they had suspected were about to be breached?

 

[Danny75]

so what?

Didn't expect anything different. Since you've already admitted that if the intention was to hinder Syria, then you're in favour of it, including the possibility of an agent aboard the Grace One (a possibility El Pais reported on) taking actions in the strait to ensure the tanker found itself in BGTW (which would be like a pirate returning with his haul to a harbour that was safe for him). Or a vessel travelling in the opposite direction forcing the Grace One to change direction. Or the matter of whether it was stopped, or stopped voluntarily at all.

you really are grasping here, first you're worried about whether ship owners knew about sanctions on Syria

Whether they were aware that the sanctions and such enforcement as was carried out on July 4th, would apply to non-EU ships. There are definitely question marks. And the legislation they scrabbled to pass the day before to cover some behinds before proceeding, indicates that the Gibraltar authorities at least, knew very well there could be question marks and possible conflict with previous enactments.

(2) The Chief Minister may issue the directions provided for in
section 25(3)
of the Sanctions Act 2019 and any directions issued thereunder must be
complied with even if compliance with the directions would be inconsistent
with the requirements under any other enactment.

https://www.gibraltarlaws.gov.gi/articles/2019s131.pdf

 

[dowie]

Didn't expect anything different. Since you've already admitted that if the intention was to hinder Syria, then you're in favour of it,

Well yeah... that's kind of the point of sanctions against Syria!

Whether they were aware that the sanctions and such enforcement as was carried out on July 4th, would apply to non-EU ships. There are definitely question marks.

Oh get a grip, not there aren't. That EU sanctions apply to all ships/aircraft is pretty damn obvious...

What next - some Arab arms dealer acts all surprised that his cargo of explosives etc.. isn't allowed at an EU airport even though it is on a non-EU plane???

WTF does it matter if a ship or plane is "non-EU" - flying a different flag or being owned by a legal entity based elsewhere isn't some magical get out of jail free card.

 

[stockhausen]

Nah, pull out completely, stop buying their oil, stop selling them weapons and . . .

I believe that America buys next to no oil or gas from the Middle East these days. However, I suspect that US "Defence" companies would be VERY upset if they couldn't sell weapons to the Middle East.

 

[i know nothing]

I believe that America buys next to no oil or gas from the Middle East these days. However, I suspect that US "Defence" companies would be VERY upset if they couldn't flog weapons to the Middle East.

I believe that America buys next to no oil or gas from the Middle East these days. However, I suspect that US "Defence" companies would be VERY upset if they couldn't sell weapons to the Middle East.

Everything okay over there?

Edit: He's done it again. Stroke?

 

[Rroff]

Whether they were aware that the sanctions and such enforcement as was carried out on July 4th, would apply to non-EU ships.

That is a fairly fundamental principle - no serious operator of shipping or aircraft, etc. as in the kind of organisations that run tankers, etc. wouldn't be aware.

 

[iamtheoneneo]

Two Chinese and three Russian military aircraft are reported to have approached South Korean airspace this evening, with one or possibly more Russian aircraft breaching its airspace twice. South Korea's air force fired warning shots.

Accident? Or message? "You hit one of our friends (Iran) and we could hit one of yours (South Korea)."

Doesn't really look like an accident that's for sure. Other sources are mentioning the Chinese aircraft as well. Sky News hasn't included that as of time of posting.

No comment from Russia or China as of yet. Wonder if they will or are adopting the Israeli practice of not commenting and letting actions do the talking.

Happens all the time everywhere. Its military intelligence recording response times, aggression and what they can get away with.

Really nothing new here apart from probably an overzealous Russian pilot that pushed his luck a bit too far. SK probably did the same on the edge of Russian airspace this morning as part of their drills.

Of course the news will ham it up like WW3 is about to start.