Reliability by brand cars 1 to 4 years old

Dangerous Dave · 22 Jul 2019 at 14:25

Psycho Sonny said:
No you are wrong there.

With cars like Audi they have for more technology in them to go wrong.

As in the skoda will have say 1000 different parts. The audi will have 10,000 different parts.

Therefore the chances of something breaking in the audi is then therefore higher. Therefore less reliable.

Do you honestly think the A3 has 9000 more parts than a Golf/Octavia ?

Your standard run of the mill Golf is also likely to have more technology as they come better equipped as standard. Go try and find a A3/A4 with adaptive cruise.

jpaul · 22 Jul 2019 at 14:27

Skoda's also have previous generation engines(..transmission/suspension ...) - no ? - so the bad (roadside recovery) problems maybe ironed out.

If you look on autoexpress, much bigger sample size 80K, the 3008 won reliability prizes over 2 years, so maybe that swayed Peugot result and below prooves true.

Amp34 said:
so Brand reliability is less relevant than model specific reliability anyway.

Psycho Sonny · 22 Jul 2019 at 14:33

Dangerous Dave said:
Do you honestly think the A3 has 9000 more parts than a Golf/Octavia ?

Your standard run of the mill Golf is also likely to have more technology as they come better equipped as standard. Go try and find a A3/A4 with adaptive cruise.

they won't but it was used to exaggerate why it's an issue.

audi will have fancy lights everywhere - skoda bog standard.

audi will have fancy seats - skoda bog standard

when you add up all the fancy extras it's more stuff to go wrong. as in a fully heated fully electric seat it will likely have hundreds more parts to it than just a manual seat.

the more electronics the worse too. fancy built in sat navs and media systems. mercedes are terrible for these. i know of a merc which needed a full re-wire after 3 years and another which majority of the sat nav and features stopped working after 3-4 years too and the part they said was broken was no longer available to buy anywhere. main dealer took £350 to say it couldn't be fixed.

Dangerous Dave · 22 Jul 2019 at 15:22

You are over estimating the level of kit on a run of the mill Audi hardly any have electric seats it's hard to even find a A1/A3/A4 with full leather/heated seats. Things like the Virtual cockpit are rare on second hand Audi's yet standard fit on some Seat/Skoda/VW models.

I've helped retro fit media systems to several older Merc's the dealer must have been poor or more to the story.

Psycho Sonny · 22 Jul 2019 at 16:01

Dangerous Dave said:
You are over estimating the level of kit on a run of the mill Audi hardly any have electric seats it's hard to even find a A1/A3/A4 with full leather/heated seats. Things like the Virtual cockpit are rare on second hand Audi's yet standard fit on some Seat/Skoda/VW models.

I've helped retro fit media systems to several older Merc's the dealer must have been poor or more to the story.

they said at first it needed a certain part. they then tried to order said part from germany to then be told it was EOL with no replacement. they then turned around and said it couldn't be fixed and billed for the costs of diagnosing it and ripping it apart and putting it back together again. i'm sure it actually came back with less features than when it went in and billed £350 for the pleasure too.

i tried to find the part online and on ebay and couldn't. so gave up. was something to do with wiring but must have had some electronics built in.

it's the same as the original amp on my bmw it's a £1500 part EOL and now can't be found anywhere. second hand they go for £200+ on ebay for a 15 year old amplifier. i took the decision to sell mine for £200 on ebay and upgrade my whole system. much better sound now and would have been something i reckon i eventually would have needed to do when boot got flooded. the amp was in the battery compartment which fills with water easily. new amplifier is now up high and can't be immersed in water cost me £400 though, plus another £250 on head unit and other parts. then £600 installing it all with a full re-wire.

so was best to do it when i did before the old amp blew up.

Nasher · 22 Jul 2019 at 18:12

Audi is like Porsche, unless you tick 100s of options you just get some seats and a steering wheel. The higher cost is for a badge.

Basically you get a Seat/Skoda with most of the standard Seat/Skoda equipment missing

Kenai · 23 Jul 2019 at 08:47

jpaul said:
Skoda's also have previous generation engines(..transmission/suspension ...) - no ?

No, they don't.

HangTime · 23 Jul 2019 at 15:24

It's a shame the stats can't be categorised by type of fault so you could rank purely based on mechanical reliability (although defining that might not be straightforward). What I'm getting at is to get rid of all the debate about "more to go wrong based on how many toys there are" you could exclude failures from options not included in the base model like sat nav, heated seats or whatever.

Rainmaker · 23 Jul 2019 at 16:03

Kenai said:
No, they don't.

Yeah mate, they do. My 2016 Superb 2.0 TSI (the one I came to the meet in) had the older 6 speed wet clutch. VW/Audi were running 7 and 8 speed boxes at the time, and they’re just starting to filter down to Skoda now. Same goes for the infotainment and other gubbins.

They share a platform, but Skoda/Seat get given access to a more mature (conversely, more battle tested) hardware bin. While some newer stuff gets given to them straight away that’s not always the case by far; like the newer DSGs, the ACT engines etc etc.

matthab · 23 Jul 2019 at 16:30

Kenai said:
No, they don't.

I agree on some models they run the older platforms. My wifes 07 Fabia despite being the same age was based on the last gen polo and used the old slush style gearbox with the N/A 1.6 petrol, never had such a hateful combination but it was reliable.

Even the current Fabia uses the last gen Polo on a modified chassis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Škoda_Fabia#Third_generation_(Typ_NJ;_2015–present) Where as Seat in the Ibiza is using the new MQB platform shared with the new Polo.

Nasher · 23 Jul 2019 at 16:49

HangTime said:
It's a shame the stats can't be categorised by type of fault so you could rank purely based on mechanical reliability (although defining that might not be straightforward). What I'm getting at is to get rid of all the debate about "more to go wrong based on how many toys there are" you could exclude failures from options not included in the base model like sat nav, heated seats or whatever.

They score worse depending on the cost of the repair afaik. So if a brand appears low down the rankings it won't be minor stuff.

On reliabilityindex.com if you look up Audi A3/A4 you see a high percentage of engine faults. So they rightly score badly.

Kenai · 23 Jul 2019 at 18:59

Rainmaker said:
Yeah mate, they do. My 2016 Superb 2.0 TSI (the one I came to the meet in) had the older 6 speed wet clutch. VW/Audi were running 7 and 8 speed boxes at the time, and they’re just starting to filter down to Skoda now. Same goes for the infotainment and other gubbins.

They share a platform, but Skoda/Seat get given access to a more mature (conversely, more battle tested) hardware bin. While some newer stuff gets given to them straight away that’s not always the case by far; like the newer DSGs, the ACT engines etc etc.

matthab said:
I agree on some models they run the older platforms. My wifes 07 Fabia despite being the same age was based on the last gen polo and used the old slush style gearbox with the N/A 1.6 petrol, never had such a hateful combination but it was reliable.

Even the current Fabia uses the last gen Polo on a modified chassis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Škoda_Fabia#Third_generation_(Typ_NJ;_2015–present) Where as Seat in the Ibiza is using the new MQB platform shared with the new Polo.

I stand corrected then. I knew they often used smaller platforms, such as the Superb being MQB but I didn't realise things like the Fabia had stayed on the older platform.

On the gearbox front though, they had the DQ380 in 2017 in line with the Octavia facelift, they're not that far behind the curve with things like that

That said, the comment I replied to mentioned engines and suspension specifically and on the engine front they're certainly not 'a generation behind' as they'd simply not be allowed to sell them.

PCM2 · 13 Sep 2019 at 11:08

New data - https://www.whatcar.com/news/the-uks-most-and-least-reliable-car-makes/n20072#22. Puts Lexus in first place, Tesla in 4th, Land Rover at the bottom.

1 Lexus 99.3%
2 Toyota 97.7%
3 Suzuki 97.3%
4 Tesla 96.9%
5 Subaru 96.6%
6 Kia 96.3%
7 Hyundai 95.7%
8 Mini 95.4%
9 Skoda 95.2%
10 Honda 94.9%
11 Volvo 94.7%
12 Dacia 94.5%
13 Mitsubishi 94.3%
14 Ford 94.1%
15 Seat 93.8%
16 Volkswagen 93.7%
17 Mazda 93.5%
18 Peugeot 93.4%
19 Fiat 93.3%
20 Audi 92.9%
21 BMW 92.1%
22 Citroën 91.8%
23 Porsche 91.7%
24 Mercedes-Benz 90.6%
25 Alfa Romeo 89.7%
26 Jaguar 89.5%
27 Vauxhall 89.4%
28 Nissan 85.7%
29 Jeep 84.4%
30 Renault 84.2%
31 Land Rover 81.3%

grudas · 13 Sep 2019 at 11:13

PCM2 said:
New data - https://www.whatcar.com/news/the-uks-most-and-least-reliable-car-makes/n20072#22. Puts Lexus in first place, Tesla in 4th, Land Rover at the bottom.

and lexus is far from "small basic city car" manufacturer is it..

so the claim of - "the more basic it is the less to go wrong" is incorrect.

my lexus has been super reliable.

Terminal_Boy · 13 Sep 2019 at 11:14

PCM2 said:
New data - https://www.whatcar.com/news/the-uks-most-and-least-reliable-car-makes/n20072#22. Puts Lexus in first place, Tesla in 4th, Land Rover at the bottom.

Dacia now being 10% above Renault makes me think the newer Renaults must have a lot of issues with gadgets that aren’t fitted on the Dacia cars.

Randomface74 · 13 Sep 2019 at 11:31

anyone have that data by car model rather than manufacturer?

wolfie138 · 13 Sep 2019 at 11:54

OpenToSuggestions said:
Very valid point. Due to the high price of batteries I can see people trying to perform a DIY fix on them as 'I will just top up the battery water like I did on my old Mondeo' ....then giving themselves a 10,000 Volt shock.

hmmm...quite a potential for Tesla to integrate an antitheft device

DarrenM343 · 13 Sep 2019 at 12:39

Can't really disagree with the list with zero evidence to back any other situation up.
Sad to see BMW a fair way down. My X1 has been solid, only replaced the battery and exhaust clamp since owning (7 years). Previous BMW's been reliable apart from breaking rear springs in a few previous Z4's - a known problem area.
Mazda also further down than I'd normally expect.
Toyota are solid cars. I'm using an old Yaris as a runabout and love its simplicity. Dad had a few issues with it though, mainly an oil leak, but not had any issues since I started using it a few years ago (dad gave it to me). He hardly used it which might have contributed to the oil leak. Not surprised to see them near the top. Looked around the new corolla recently and actually really liked it. Top notch quality. Even the door hinges looked like could hold a tank door

Nasher · 13 Sep 2019 at 13:05

grudas said:
and lexus is far from "small basic city car" manufacturer is it..

so the claim of - "the more basic it is the less to go wrong" is incorrect.

my lexus has been super reliable.

Even Toyotas come with quite a few toys now and they are only getting beaten by themselves under a different brand

So yea...

jigger · 13 Sep 2019 at 13:11

Suzuki almost matching Toyota is impressive. Seems like a decent price difference between the two.