Soldato
Ships under attack in the middle east
- Thread starter XeNoN89
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Caporegime
Suggest you read your own sources...this is a theme ain't it? Uk airspace starts 12 miles from land. It flew to within 20. Not 12. Ergo didn't enter uk airspace.
They aren't "entirely" incorrect in what they say as it was designed with and does possess some stealth ability, but it's along the same lines of the SR-71's stealth ability. The F-117 had much better stealth and that was withdrawn from service because its stealth abilities didn't cut it anymore. So yeah, one of those things where they aren't lying but they are stretching the truth to try and mislead.
@ubersonic still nothing to back up your claims then?
You're thinking of UK territorial waters, UK controlled airspace goes much further.
Is someone moving goalposts around?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airspace
Your inability to even acknowledge the previous BS you spouted let alone attempt to back it up is rather telling.
I linked a few but here's a direct quote from a high ranking EU official:
https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/1147979806593695745
A couple have defied the EUs attempts to remain silent on the matter to not make the UK look bad, but he's prob one of the most prominent. Thought Josep Borrell also revealed that the USA originally requested that Spain stop the ship and they refused as it hadn't broken any EU laws, so the USA then asked the UK to do it.
No, moving goalposts implies that I have changed what I've been saying to try and claim victory in an argument that wasn't originally happening, I haven't changed anything though. It's a metaphor, like straw manning, you know the thing you keep doing to try and goad me into an infractable response, it's not going to work.
What have you linked to that actually backs up your claims?
A quote from some former politician isn't evidence of anything you've claimed here. Specifically your claims related to both some notion that there was an exemption for non-EU ships and secondly that Gibraltar's legislation extended the scope of the sanctions.
Given that both the EU regulations and Gibraltar's legislation (which is only a few pages) have both been linked to then perhaps you could just cite the basis for those claims?
I have linked numerous sources, you even quoted some on this page, here you go: https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/32894562
It would have been unlawful to stop the ship in Gibraltarian waters until the UK changed Gibraltarian law just before the ship arrived so they could do it (and ensure the ship wouldn't be able to find out in time thta the law had changed and adjust it's planned route).
Kinda sad we went to all that trouble for the USA and now Pompeo's basically hung us out to dry >.>
So the other poster is referring to UK "airspace" as being 12 miles from land - you've disputed it and stated that "controlled airspace" starts further than that... which you've not backed up and as you'll note from the above link a country may assume responsibility for controlling parts of international airspace - i.e. a flight information region.
So why not clarify what you're referring to - you're either wrong or you've moved the goalposts.
I've seen the times article thanks and it doesn't back up what you claimed about non-EU ships being exempt or Gibraltar legislation extending the scope of the sanctions. Please do quote where it does that?
Better still, please note that both the regulations and that few pages of Gibraltar legislation have both been posted in the thread, please do cite the relevant parts for both the exemption and the extension of scope.
Quoting an ex politician on twitter and then referring back to the article that you apparently couldn't read properly in the first place isn't a good start.
The funniest thing is, he claimed it wasn't in UK airspace as it flew within 20 miles of Hull and UK territorial waters start 12 mines from the coast, but Hull is actually ~10 miles from the cost
I never said it does, that article shows that the UK changed the law at the 11th hour to make it legal to stop the ship and entrap it. It was the comment from the European Council on Foreign Relations co-chair among others that showed that the EU didn't impose it's sanctions on non members.
But hey you've spent days ignoring what myself and others have patiently explained/shown to you, why change now
Don't lie.
It is a simple request - see the claims above, I've made it easier for you by putting them in bold.
Please cite the basis for these two claims - you've firstly claimed that vessels belonging to non-member states are exempt from the regulations - what is the basis for that?
You've secondly claimed that Gibraltar law extended the scope of those regulations - what is the basis for that?
Both the relevant regulations and the Gibraltar legislation (which is only a few pages) have been posted in here.
I don't take kindly to that type of insult, I have remained calm and cordial throughout your various attempts to elicit a punishable reaction from me. Could you please show where you claim I said that then?
Try reading the post... again your inability to back up your claims is rather telling. I'm not trying to elicit anything from you other than... well something to back up your claims - why are you continually unable to provide that?
In b4 but but - here is some ex politician making a statement on twitter or here is some article I didn't read properly....
Take your time and cite something, put it into quotes, that actually backs up what you claimed.
Caporegime
The funniest thing is, he claimed it wasn't in UK airspace as it flew within 20 miles of Hull and UK territorial waters start 12 mines from the coast, but Hull is actually ~10 miles from the cost
Your own sources linked all use the daily mail as the source. That's clear from their titles, sources and matching text. So you jave one source. The daily mail. The daily mail states...
A Tupoloev ‘Blackjack’ bomber similar to the jet that flew within 20 miles of the British coast completely undetected
Hull is about 5 miles from the coast at its nearest point. Not 10. Ergo you can fly within 20 miles of it and still be outside uk airspace.
Keep in mind one of your sources states hull is 25 miles in land. Good source that!
Caporegime
You get it. Dowie gets it. I get it. One can only assume that those that don't get it are lying, mildly retarded or have some sort of agenda.
Permabanned
@ubersonic
You, I and anyone with reasoning ability higher than a cabbage know the UK seized the Iranian ship on the behest of our master the US and that this has nothing to do with EU sanctions which are only invoked to give our piracy a paper-thin veneer of legality for the gullible like dowie, dis86 etc.
If they want to believe that the UK, a country that couldn't give a flying **** about law when it comes to foreign policy (see Iraq, Libya, Syria, the recent confiscation of Venezuelan gold etc), suddenly felt that it had no choice other than to enforce EU law in a way NO OTHER EU COUNTRY HAS DONE AND WITH NO PRESSURE FROM THE EU, then more fool them. The Spanish have already told us what happened for god's sake.
Anyone who actually believes that is incapable of being reasoned with.
It's clear dowie gets some kind of thrill out of oil destined for the people of Syria being seized so they can freeze to death in winter. After all we saw with the sanctions against Iraq in the 90s that only the 'regime' suffered and 500K children didn't die at all. They are like magic.
Morally bankrupt people like him aren't worth the time.
You, I and anyone with reasoning ability higher than a cabbage know the UK seized the Iranian ship on the behest of our master the US and that this has nothing to do with EU sanctions which are only invoked to give our piracy a paper-thin veneer of legality for the gullible like dowie, dis86 etc.
If they want to believe that the UK, a country that couldn't give a flying **** about law when it comes to foreign policy (see Iraq, Libya, Syria, the recent confiscation of Venezuelan gold etc), suddenly felt that it had no choice other than to enforce EU law in a way NO OTHER EU COUNTRY HAS DONE AND WITH NO PRESSURE FROM THE EU, then more fool them. The Spanish have already told us what happened for god's sake.
Anyone who actually believes that is incapable of being reasoned with.
It's clear dowie gets some kind of thrill out of oil destined for the people of Syria being seized so they can freeze to death in winter. After all we saw with the sanctions against Iraq in the 90s that only the 'regime' suffered and 500K children didn't die at all. They are like magic.
Morally bankrupt people like him aren't worth the time.