Solar Panel advice

[Jay.D]

Have solar installed in far north Queensland, Australia. We get pretty good rebates on rooftop solar. Had a 13.2KW system installed recently at a cost of $9000 (approx) £5000 after rebate. On a clear day the system generates 55-59KW, cloudy/rainy 7KW. House of 4 generally using 20-25KW per day, in summer with air conditioning rising to average 35KW. Battery doesn't make any economic sense here, payback outside of 10 year warranty, fit is 7.8c (approx 4p) per KW. Power cost 29c (16p). I guestimate payback within 5 years, maybe less...we have our hot water system on a day timer so divert excess power to that. Most people go with 6.6KW systems but as we have 2 phase power this was made good economic sense.

 

[sja360]

Have solar installed in far north Queensland, Australia. We get pretty good rebates on rooftop solar. Had a 13.2KW system installed recently at a cost of $9000 (approx) £5000 after rebate. On a clear day the system generates 55-59KW, cloudy/rainy 7KW. House of 4 generally using 20-25KW per day, in summer with air conditioning rising to average 35KW. Battery doesn't make any economic sense here, payback outside of 10 year warranty, fit is 7.8c (approx 4p) per KW. Power cost 29c (16p). I guestimate payback within 5 years, maybe less...we have our hot water system on a day timer so divert excess power to that. Most people go with 6.6KW systems but as we have 2 phase power this was made good economic sense.

That seems crazy cheap for that size of system, is that system built in Australia? as I would imagine import taxes would be high importing a system.

 

[TNA]

Have solar installed in far north Queensland, Australia. We get pretty good rebates on rooftop solar. Had a 13.2KW system installed recently at a cost of $9000 (approx) £5000 after rebate. On a clear day the system generates 55-59KW, cloudy/rainy 7KW. House of 4 generally using 20-25KW per day, in summer with air conditioning rising to average 35KW. Battery doesn't make any economic sense here, payback outside of 10 year warranty, fit is 7.8c (approx 4p) per KW. Power cost 29c (16p). I guestimate payback within 5 years, maybe less...we have our hot water system on a day timer so divert excess power to that. Most people go with 6.6KW systems but as we have 2 phase power this was made good economic sense.

Sounds like a sweet deal you got there Jay D. Works out nice for you, as power seems a bit more expensive there and you have a lot of sun so makes sense. If I could get something that paid itself in 5 years, I would be all over it.

 

[Jay.D]

That seems crazy cheap for that size of system, is that system built in Australia? as I would imagine import taxes would be high importing a system.

Nah imported, it's not a high end system. The total cost was $16000, rebate was $7000.
Inverters are fronius, panels phono solar.

 

[Jay.D]

Sounds like a sweet deal you got there Jay D. Works out nice for you, as power seems a bit more expensive there and you have a lot of sun so makes sense. If I could get something that paid itself in 5 years, I would be all over it.

Power is definitely more expensive, we have only one supplier...state owned (Ergon). They've reduced the fit this year from 8.4c to 7.8c. I reckon they'll keep reducing the fit ongoing too as rooftop solar has exploded in popularity...and consequently reduced wholesale prices. There are cheaper systems around, some companies advertise 6.6KW systems for $4000 after rebate.

 

[OllyM]

That is very cheap, I've just had an 8.19kW system installed and it was about $15,500 after the 30% Federal tax credit. A large part of the cost is labor though, the components are pretty cheap.

It should pay for itself after just over 4 years though - in New Jersey we have full net metering so any export is worth about 17c per kWh and for 10 years I generate an SREC for every 1000kWh produced by the array (they currently sell for about $225 each).

Net metering means batteries don't make sense unless you want backup in case the grid goes down, you lose over 10% roundtrip putting power into a Tesla Powerwall for example.

 

[weescott]

They are a pigeons wet dream I hope they have got bird proofing installed. My neighbour asked me where I got mine installed as the pigeons were keeping them up all night.

I asked a family member who is an expert in the field about this. You are correct, it is a very common issue, however. Feral pigeons in urban areas and not wood pigeons are the biggest culprit. Pigeons also prefer curved roof tiles as they are nicer for them to nest in.

Our install is on flat tiles in a semi rural location so nesting pigeons should never be an issue.

The installer made channels in the slates so the mounting hardware sits flush. This is why the panels are so close to the roof with only a small gap. It took them a bit more time but the end result was worth it.

The cost of installing bird proofing is prohibitively expensive for residential set ups. It's not something I will do.

 

[Jay.D]

That is very cheap, I've just had an 8.19kW system installed and it was about $15,500 after the 30% Federal tax credit. A large part of the cost is labor though, the components are pretty cheap.

It should pay for itself after just over 4 years though - in New Jersey we have full net metering so any export is worth about 17c per kWh and for 10 years I generate an SREC for every 1000kWh produced by the array (they currently sell for about $225 each).

Net metering means batteries don't make sense unless you want backup in case the grid goes down, you lose over 10% roundtrip putting power into a Tesla Powerwall for example.

Wow, sweet deal. I think tesla are the only battery provider that provide off-grid power. All other batteries are deactivated with solar in a blackout. We do get maybe 1 blackout every 2-3 months, so it's an issue here...but we also have a generator for backup, which is about $15k less

 

[weescott]

Wow, sweet deal. I think tesla are the only battery provider that provide off-grid power.

These guys do it too.

https://sonnenbatterie.co.uk/

 

[Psycho Sonny]

I asked a family member who is an expert in the field about this. You are correct, it is a very common issue, however. Feral pigeons in urban areas and not wood pigeons are the biggest culprit. Pigeons also prefer curved roof tiles as they are nicer for them to nest in.

Our install is on flat tiles in a semi rural location so nesting pigeons should never be an issue.

The installer made channels in the slates so the mounting hardware sits flush. This is why the panels are so close to the roof with only a small gap. It took them a bit more time but the end result was worth it.

The cost of installing bird proofing is prohibitively expensive for residential set ups. It's not something I will do.

Cost me £300 not that expensive but expensive enough to put you off panels as it just makes the payback term a year longer.

 

[balls]

Having a property with Solar already fitted is only going to be more desirable as it means lower bills. In summer our electric bills are around £15pm. Half of that is standing charges. The only real costs for us is bulk LPG in winter.

Solar PV + Solar Thermal. Not too negative a cosmetic impact I don't think :

you'd be better off having an electric heat pump rather than LPG/boiler

 

[balls]

Kill two birds with one stone, grab a cheap Nissan Leaf and set up V2H, even if you don't drive it the battery is cheaper than an install of the same capacity of home lithium storage.

http://setec-power.com/index.php?m=content&c=index&a=show&catid=15&id=25

That is very tempting, although I don't think my missus would appreciate a 5th car in front of the house even if it were just for battery!

 

[weescott]

you'd be better off having an electric heat pump rather than LPG/boiler

It's the right thing to do but not the cheap thing to do, we would never get our money back.

We are roughly £450 a year in LPG which is used for heating/cooking and a backup for hot water. Will be slightly less since we had the iboost fitted.

We have a few options... Replace all the radiators and pipes with a high flow system. Opt for an air to air heat pump sysem, replace the gas hob for an induction hob, stick with what we have, or move.

The parents in law have an air to air heat pump system. The wife doesn't like it because the house always feels draughty. It's not meant to be great for Allergies either.

 

[Deleted member 77746]

Anyone who has purchased solar panels on here..... there's something going to kick off like PPI I think as miss sold....

https://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2019/09/thousands-complain-about-the-misselling-of-solar-panels/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-49566130
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/bills-a...loans-pay-solar-panels-complain-returns-dont/

 

[Semple]

Anyone who has purchased solar panels on here..... there's something going to kick off like PPI I think as miss sold....

https://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2019/09/thousands-complain-about-the-misselling-of-solar-panels/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-49566130
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/bills-a...loans-pay-solar-panels-complain-returns-dont/

It's a tricky one i think.

From skimming the articles, they're a bit light on detail. But from what i'm gathering, it's a case of the panels are not producing as much energy as initially quoted during consultation.

The problem i see with that though, is there could be many factors that determine how much energy the panels generate.
- Efficiency of the panel
- Roof direction
- Duration of daylight

I don't think the FIT will be an issue as my understanding is that this is fixed (although unsure on duration of term).

For point 1, the complaint will be with the manufacturer of the panels to determine whether the panels can still output roughly what the quoted operating margin is.
For point 2, this could probably be the only point where installers over-estimated how much energy would be produced if installed on a non-south facing roof.
For point 3, that's out of everyone's control, i'd be surprised if they'd over-estimated with this factor.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

From what it sounds like though is the people doing the mis selling no longer exist. Can they go after the finance company when it wasn’t them making the alleged claims.

The whole PPI thing has opened a can of worms which is not next to impossible to put back and just emphasises how people can be compensated for a lack of personal and financial responsibility. Payday loans is another example.

 

[Semple]

From what it sounds like though is the people doing the mis selling no longer exist. Can they go after the finance company when it wasn’t them making the alleged claims.

The whole PPI thing has opened a can of worms which is not next to impossible to put back and just emphasises how people can be compensated for a lack of personal and financial responsibility. Payday loans is another example.

How are people claiming back PPI compensation from banks that no longer exist? - is the FSCS covering these somehow?

I guess for the most part collapsed banks tend to get bought out by the bigger banks, so i imagine it becomes their responsibility too cover any future liabilities.

But i agree, just because PV Solar UK have disappeared, its a bit unfair on the banks to be expected to cover these loans when they didn't make the claims in the first place.

 

[Deleted member 77746]

Rumor is Barclays has put 38 million to one side in case they do find out what's been going on. I think Finance companies are getting ready for the back lash again.

I am fairly sure there is more to it though because there are examples of complaints flooding in where by people who sell their house have also got more money to pull out for legal documents that they where not told in the first place they would need to do this.

House owners where told everything would be there and they get the documents with no further cost to the home owner. Problem is, people are getting charged for legal documents and also been charged for pigeon issues so really the solar panels are not saving the home owner even if the solar panels where free in the first place.

I have solar panels, mine where free but the solar panel company won't release any figures to what my panels are generating and how much I would be saving and also how much the company is making off FIT.

Also if anything goes wrong with the solar panels the home owner is legally responsible to having them fixed. For example if any part breaks after 2 years or something like that. This can rack up to over 5K for certain parts that gets installed in the loft + panels.

If more information was given to me what I know now I would not have had the solar panels installed. Not to mention the chew on I have had selling my property due to legal documentation issues.

I was quoted £400.00 + £1000.00 scaffolding costs to put pigeon protectors up. I was also quoted £216.00 for legal documents on the sale of a house when I never got the documents in the first place despite telling them I never received any in the first place. This doesn't really save the home owner does it as advertised.

There is an article for the solar panel company in a document, which states if you can't sell your house they would purchase it off you for the total sum of market value.

There's more coming to light... watch this space.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

How are people claiming back PPI compensation from banks that no longer exist? - is the FSCS covering these somehow?

It was two separate points. Most of the solar companies highlighted have gone under. So is the finance company liable when they didn’t sell the panels?

What I was trying to say was the PPI ‘scandal’ has opened the door for lots more of these types of claims. There are so many who had PPI and were happy with it but still claimed the money back anyway because they could. That isn’t a good thing and it encourages more to do the same.

@mrbell1984 you have a rent a roof type setup? That’s a whole mother area to those highlighted in that news article.

 

[Semple]

It was two separate points. Most of the solar companies highlighted have gone under. So is the finance company liable when they didn’t sell the panels?

What I was trying to say was the PPI ‘scandal’ has opened the door for lots more of these types of claims. There are so many who had PPI and were happy with it but still claimed the money back anyway because they could. That isn’t a good thing and it encourages more to do the same.

I was agreeing with you , was just throwing out the point about how are people claiming back PPI from banks that no longer exist, that money has to come from somewhere.

Also if anything goes wrong with the solar panels the home owner is legally responsible to having them fixed. For example if any part breaks after 2 years or something like that. This can rack up to over 5K for certain parts that gets installed in the loft + panels.

Yeah i think that's quite an unfair clause there. If the solar installation company are profiting from the FIT exports, then they should be liable for repair costs as well.

You can quite understand why some people have been shafted for thousands if things haven't quite gone to plan.

Speaking as someone without solar, but would certainly like solar. I think the scheme should have never existed in the first place, the government should have been pushing for a scheme where people want solar panels to offset their energy bills, not to profit from them with generous FIT schemes.