AMD Zen 2 (Ryzen 3000) - * NO COMPETITOR HINTING *

gpuerrilla · 23 Sep 2019 at 10:59

Its not his fault on messages then fair enough. He still needs to brush up on the methods when reviewing, he fudged this one up and take it on the chin.

chrcoluk · 23 Sep 2019 at 12:26

TrixX said:
However this is a clear case of Jay not having a clue and instead of going to MSI and saying look I'm seeing something odd with this (like most people would with a faulty product), he made a video lambasting AMD and MSI making himself look like a total tit.

None of this little storm in a teacup would have occurred if he had done some basic due diligence on the products he was using. Such as how to OC the CPU and finding out why his whizzbang mobo wasn't whizzing and was banging too much.

The icing on the cake was just attacking everyone on Twitter and Reddit who for the most part were civil and pointing out his errors. There were a few being dicks but he's gonna attract that with the amount of subs he has.

Yeah his approach was just weird.

Should put the cpu back to stock. If still playing up then time to swap either cpu or board to diagnose where the problem is.

I think the reason he did no swapout was he wasnt prepared to buy a replacement at retail. Stubbornness to just use what is sent to him free.

Due to the way XFR works, I think just hard throttling the voltage like that whilst keeping XFR enabled wasnt going to end well either, an offset would be ok but I dont know what he was expecting, by setting it -0.15v below stock whilst keeping XFR enabled.

My one and only comment on his video which had a bunch of likes was he should have swapped out the board for his testing. This was made around the time I posted my comment on here which humbug quoted, that shows my point of view hasnt changed but rather I just havent presented it well enough. As I do not 100% back jayz I merely meant I agreed with the idle voltage issue.

humbug · 23 Sep 2019 at 14:52

chrcoluk said:
Thats not very nice humbug, to be honest, you dont know how it works yourself, I didnt say it before as I was been polite.

The idle 1.5v is absolutely nothing to do with the boost algorithm by the way.

I never said JayZ got it completely right, but I agree with him that cpu's shouldnt be idling at 1.5v. If I remember right you was claiming there was nothing wrong with the old broken amd scheduler right even when amd themselves issued a fix? One way to identify a shill is when he still defends something that even the company acknowledges as broken.

As a reminder the basis of my comment is when I left my 2600x idling overnight on remote desktop and all that time it was at 1.4+ volts. I also explained that it had an operational effect, higher temps and power draw, when I moved the system to the microsoft scheduler. It worked properly.

However where jayz got it wrong is looking at the voltage in the bios, in every modern bios I have used they idle at load voltages. So seeing 1.5v in the bios in that regard is not broken as bios's dont utilise power saving modes, no cstates or pstates.

He also got it completely wrong by diagnosing the bios as been broken without doing any kind of cpu or board swapout first.

My 2600x will use XFR voltage in bios if thats enabled, but interestingly it uses the all core voltage not single core, which is different to what jayz was seeing, perhaps that is what threw him off. I assume either msi or AMD have made a change on ryzen 3000 series so the load on the chips is different in the bios.

Now AMD specs say volts up to 1.5v are within normal parameters. However they also said the following on reddit.

1.5v is within specification, the chips are designed to burst up to this voltage as and when load demands require it.

Thats a bit different to having a chip sit at 1.5v 24/7.

It is a bit like a car that is rated up to a certain amount of revs but its not designed to run at those revs 24/7.

My opinion is no one's chips are going to blow up, they will all probably easily last out warranty periods. But at the same time I think the 1.5v idling is perhaps a bug, also the AGESA update's issued are unusual practice for a released cpu product. Which was the basis of my beta comment (alongside the scheduler patch).

You say i don't know how it works my self but don't actually challenge anything that i have said.

I do know how it works because unlike JayZ2cents i have taken the time to study and understand how it works.

As a Tech reviewer that ^^^ is his job.

TrixX · 23 Sep 2019 at 15:07

Thekwango said:
doubt it. as the poster above says really. it's the no publicity is bad publicity mentality.
i can't for 1 minute believe he doesn't know the operational characteristics of the R3K chips. maybe, just maybe, he forgot he was using a pre-production board but i imagine it was just a 'shout loud' video to attract attention, clicks and views. but then again i have a low opinion of most of these self appointed tech experts.

He's shown many times that he hasn't the foggiest when it comes to Ryzen and even trying to OC Vega which is a challenge at the best of times. He's gotten into overclocking just using simple tools like Afterburner and hasn't really learn't the more complicated stuff. I'd have expected his LN2 overclocking to have helped but it doesn't seem to have done so. As for the Pre-prod board he was adamant it was retail until MSI confirmed otherwise...

gpuerrilla · 23 Sep 2019 at 15:34

Well since then he has ranted that he will only use retail stuff to review from now on. What do these guys do with all the stuff they are sent? Surely when you have such a large following there is another board lying around or just go and buy one from the shop like the rest of us. :rolleyes:

Thekwango · 23 Sep 2019 at 16:06

TrixX said:
He's shown many times that he hasn't the foggiest when it comes to Ryzen and even trying to OC Vega which is a challenge at the best of times. He's gotten into overclocking just using simple tools like Afterburner and hasn't really learn't the more complicated stuff. I'd have expected his LN2 overclocking to have helped but it doesn't seem to have done so

jesus, that's even more 'frightening' - he should maybe stick to what he knows best, weight loss videos

TrixX said:
As for the Pre-prod board he was adamant it was retail until MSI confirmed otherwise...

wtf can you even say to that. that level of ineptness is forgivable if it was some dude doing the review in his bedroom, just about.

and yet people flock to his defence. baffling really. goes to show that anyone can set themselves up as a tech expert/reviewer.

TrixX · 23 Sep 2019 at 16:12

When he did the Vega56 OC, he did the classic whack power to max and then stick Core to Max and Mem to Max in Afterburner. While AB still didn't have support for Vega properly...

There's a reason using OverdriveNTool was better for Vega. I miss that, Navi is just a bitch to OC as there's no granular control of the voltage and perf targets

Thekwango · 23 Sep 2019 at 16:39

TrixX said:
When he did the Vega56 OC, he did the classic whack power to max and then stick Core to Max and Mem to Max in Afterburner. While AB still didn't have support for Vega properly...

There's a reason using OverdriveNTool was better for Vega. I miss that, Navi is just a bitch to OC as there's no granular control of the voltage and perf targets

did he have the first ever released Vega's or was it after the world and their dog(at least in enthusiast circles) knew that oc'ing Vega was a bit more nuanced? please say it was the former and not the latter......but i can guess which it probably was

TrixX · 23 Sep 2019 at 17:15

Thekwango said:
did he have the first ever released Vega's or was it after the world and their dog(at least in enthusiast circles) knew that oc'ing Vega was a bit more nuanced? please say it was the former and not the latter......but i can guess which it probably was

Oh it was well after there was enough info out to do it right. Zero tech tuber's I've seen got it right though. Even GN didn't, he still thinks pretty much zero gain with mem OC on Vega, cos his 56 didn't OC on mem at all. My 1150MHz on mem was a crap load of perf

Panos · 23 Sep 2019 at 17:15

Thekwango said:
did he have the first ever released Vega's or was it after the world and their dog(at least in enthusiast circles) knew that oc'ing Vega was a bit more nuanced? please say it was the former and not the latter......but i can guess which it probably was

Months later. And because of all the flak he gave to AMD back in 2017, AMD delayed the TR kit to him for 3 months

Something that would happen now.

But wasn't alone. Guru3d another example. Cracking voltages and clocks to maximum, and the card has worse performance than with standard clocks.

And proved it last year when got a used reference Vega 64. With just mild undervolt was beating all media outlets "overclocked" Vega results by 10%.... with the blower

Panos · 23 Sep 2019 at 17:19

OK back to subject.
Today apparently the launch, in some regions, of the Ryzen 3500X & 3500 6 core 6 thread CPUs.

Panos · 23 Sep 2019 at 17:26

TrixX said:
When he did the Vega56 OC, he did the classic whack power to max and then stick Core to Max and Mem to Max in Afterburner. While AB still didn't have support for Vega properly...

There's a reason using OverdriveNTool was better for Vega. I miss that, Navi is just a bitch to OC as there's no granular control of the voltage and perf targets

Have you tried the MorePowerTool?
https://www.igorslab.media/morepowe...x-5700-xt-tweaking-and-overclocking-software/

Destination · 23 Sep 2019 at 18:29

Panos said:
OK back to subject.
Today apparently the launch, in some regions, of the Ryzen 3500X & 3500 6 core 6 thread CPUs.

Have we pricing on these out of interest?
I must look into the rest of the line, as bar the big names I haven't looked properly at this or the integrated GFX chips.

Drollic · 23 Sep 2019 at 19:06

Anyone running x570 aorus elite? Is the latest f5b bios now fault free? I know f5a had a boot order issue.

Panos · 23 Sep 2019 at 19:10

Destination said:
Have we pricing on these out of interest?
I must look into the rest of the line, as bar the big names I haven't looked properly at this or the integrated GFX chips.

Around $129-$150

Destination · 23 Sep 2019 at 20:31

opethdisciple · 23 Sep 2019 at 22:39

Still cant get 3600MHz stable on my ram. I've typed in everything form the dram calc this time including the power supply stuff and after about 10 days of stability, yesterday it froze and today I had a reboot.

So I've gone back to DOCP 3200MHz at CL14. Which to be honest is probably a good thing as it is a smidgen faster than 3600MHz CL16 anyway according to a ram latency calculator.

Panos · 23 Sep 2019 at 23:11

opethdisciple said:
Still cant get 3600MHz stable on my ram. I've typed in everything form the dram calc this time including the power supply stuff and after about 10 days of stability, yesterday it froze and today I had a reboot.

So I've gone back to DOCP 3200MHz at CL14. Which to be honest is probably a good thing as it is a smidgen faster than 3600MHz CL16 anyway according to a ram latency calculator.

Which power settings you used from the Calculator? Minimum, Recommended or Maximum?
Also have you selected the correct CPU which is Zen 2 not Ryzen 2? Have you selected the correct memory modules (b-die etc) and the correct rank and mobo chipset?
Have you let the calculator read your default memory settings?

Street · 23 Sep 2019 at 23:33

Drollic said:
Anyone running x570 aorus elite? Is the latest f5b bios now fault free? I know f5a had a boot order issue.

I've used both F5a and now F5b without any problems on my Elite.

Buffalo2102 · 24 Sep 2019 at 00:05

Street said:
I've used both F5a and now F5b without any problems on my Elite.

This. Also had no issues with F4m or F4n.

Competitor rules

AMD Zen 2 (Ryzen 3000) - *** NO COMPETITOR HINTING ***

AMD Zen 2 (Ryzen 3000) - * NO COMPETITOR HINTING *