The Game Changers - Cameron, Schwarzenegger, Chan

Soldato
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Any chance you've watched the video a second time and found an answer to the question I posed?

What about the 5% (near 400 million of us on this planet right now), that going Vegan ultimately spells disaster or a final Game Over to? The issue with G6PD isn't as jumpy as your Vegan vs Meat debate (which constantly swings from side to side), it's an established fact and not disputed ANYWHERE across the globe, to those who inherited G6PD, our Red Blood cells die when they come in contact with Soya (the primary base of going Vegan). There's no if's or but's involved there, it's the base of what is happening inside us when we run into something we shouldn't. We don't control it, we didn't ask for it either. We just have it, it's who we are. Just like our skin colour.

The outright effects on us G6PD'ers vary, as we inherit different severity levels, so some only suffer minor aenemia and so darker urines and stools. Some others (like myself) become weak and lathargic as well. Some suffer blackouts and faint, having a hard time breathing. Some others (like my mother) suffer cramps and spams from the blood being unable to carry oxygen in the system (due to heavy Red Blood cell loss). And some (like my grandfather) just flat out dies after short continued exposure.

So I would like to ask, has that video provided any answers for the people like me, who wouldn't mind going Vegan, but can't actually? So we know it has factored in this 5% before it makes this claim? Or should we be ignored because we're a "minority"?

So I've looked into this more, I'm still learning about G6PD, however the following non bean based plants would give you more than enough protein:

Watercress
Alfalfa
Spinach
Cabbage
Asparagus
Broccoli
Cauliflower
Brussels sprouts
rice

Also, when did you ever hear about anyone suffering from a protein deficiency ? I asked my cousin who's a doctor - says he's never treated anyone for such a thing, ever.

I hear an awful lot about heart disease and cancer though :(
 
Soldato
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Exactly what is he a doctor of, Mister Venkman?

Ask Doctor Cousins about deficiency in RbAp48. This is a protein deficiency reckoned to significantly contribute to Alzheimers.
Protein deficiency also leads to anemia and low blood sugar, edema, fatty liver, loss of muscle mass, stunted growth, plus an increase in severity of infections, likelihood of bbone fractures, and various skin, hair and nail problems.
In severe cases of protein S deficiency, infants develop a life-threatening blood clotting disorder called purpura fulminans.

Ask Dr Cousin which website he got his diploma off... because Google clearly knows more than he does!!

wow, just wow, i bow down to your google skills that clearly match his medical degree in medicene! He's a proper doctor - and you talking about a still largely unknown condition that develops late in life vs no one walks into a hospital (without a specific genetic medical condition) suffering from a lack of protein.

Your post makes you sound like a daily mail reader, get a grip.

I've never in my life seen an unotherwise 'healthy' normal person ever suffer from a lack of it - sure you can google some obscure rare genetic condition but that only proves you entirely missed what i was saying.
 
Associate
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So I've looked into this more, I'm still learning about G6PD, however the following non bean based plants would give you more than enough protein:

Let me go through them. Assuming Male 50KG (lol, I pick up that weight with one arm) weight sedentary lifestyle, so around 56g of protein a day recommended:

Watercress: You'd need to eat a (non actual) ton of this to make up the protein required; Near 2.5kg of this. But that is 280 calories total for all of that, which is not fine, as you've just dumped a large mass into your stomach and have yet to obtain the necessary calorie amount. Even split by 3 for three meals a day, you're looking at 800g of watercress (that's 8 to 10 bags of the stuff from places like Waitrose and Sainsburys) PER sitting. But then you start to also: Calcium and Magnesium excess by many times the daily recommended amount. Calcium is directly bad as there are several illness' related to its excess. Magnesium is largely bad for kidneys, and all this just to maintain a daily recommended level of protein. That's not a good trade off. And certainly not for more elderly G6PD people (to which we can assume at least 80 million people of that 400 million would fall under this).

Alfalfa: Wouldn't work. Legume family based. Auto out.

Spinach: Excess Iron. Leafy Green. Remember that of that 400 million people, at least 100 million are female, and assuming everyone lives to 100, at least 45 million at around the age or passed the age of having menopause. So this is not suitable for large consumption for at least that many people.

Cabbage: Could work. Least amout of known issues for G6PD sufferers. But again suffers from needing at least 5KG of the stuff to make up the daily Protein level. So split by 3, that leaves us with at least 1.3KG of cabbage. So that's two small cabbage heads per sitting. And... well. Again, if we just put two small cabbage heads together and put it near our stomach, we can see it ain't gonna fit easily.

Asparagus: One that could work from what I know, unless if you suffer from other complications with Asparagus, to which I know my mother does (Night Leg Cramps, 100%, every time, Asparagus is involved, she suffers from it). Techincally not G6PD issue, but again, as having G6PD doesn't preclude other issues, you really need to factor them in too if they're common enough. Most Chinese people are warned off Asparagus if you have leg issues. And of course, I dunno about you, but every time my friends have Asparagus, I make sure I'm far away from them and downwind. :p But I will agree this is possible, but I doubt many will want to eat to the levels required. High amounts of Iron however, is an issue for the older G6PD females too.

Broccoli: I have this already, but not to the amounts you'd need it per day for 50KG Male. You're talking near 2.2KG of the stuff. That's around 10 heads of broccoli, I don't know about you, but that's probably a bit too much space for a 50KG male person to intake to their stomach. Even if we split it down to 3 for 3 meals a day, we're looking at 3 heads of broccoli only. Put 3 heads of broccoli together and put it near your stomach, and tell me you can stomach that down, with other foods as well, since it won't give the necessary calories required alone; Again, for a 50KG Male.

Cauliflower: This suffers from the same issue as Cabbage. It'll work, but you need to consume an inordinate amount of it to make up the protein level. We're looking at 10 small heads (4" diameter) per day again, and split by three meals, and again you're looking at at least 3 of them per meal.

Brussels sprouts: Can work, other than it won't make it popular with other people :p. But, the primary issue remains where you need to eat near 2.2KG a day of it. That's 1 and a half bags of it each sitting (near 700g of it). Certainly just about possible to place in your stomach. Probably the only one possible to do for daily intake really that you've listed. But women of advanced age or have already hit Menopause can't take it (as their usual method of removing Iron in their blood is now stopped).

Rice: Suffers from the same issue as Watercress, you'd need to consume near 2.5kg of rice alone to make up that protein recommendation. No one eats that much rice. No one. And I'm Chinese, I have rice, and I can barely take in 300g each sitting (and that's during large family gatherings over special occasions, that is also filled with other foods), much less 7 times more that. Or, if I just have rice three or four times a day, that's still 3 amounts less than whats required to get the required protein, and even with a large stomach you can't possibly handle that much rice (not on a 50KG Male), not without overeating by a WIDE margin. Again, the trade off is, non-ideal. Plus, whilst its silly to point out as I've not seen many Chinese people die from Arsenic from consuming rice only, but Rice suffers from having high concentrations of the stuff, which at 300g (most people eat at per sitting), now you're talking near 7 times this if you go this route. Much more research is needed, but its fairly clear it's not a wise decision.

Compare this to 1 Chicken Breast fillet. Weighing in at 172 grams. Yeah, I don't know about you, but I'd rather not try and bust my stomach to keep parity with that 172g of Chicken Breast to be honest. Compare the size of that with 3 heads of brocolli, or 900g of rice, all just to keep parity on the protein side, and not even factoring in excess of other nutrients that have now become bad for you through overconsumption without even meeting the Daily Calorie intake required.

And of course, we haven't compared the price of the amount of vegetables you need to purchase, and the fuel prices to cook that many for ONE person. And of course, needing suppliments for anything else you may miss through the combination of the possible foods above. If I had the money those atheletes do as well, sure as I'm a bloke, I can try Vegan for a while. But for a female with G6PD? Auto-fail after certain milestones are hit. So Vegan for all will never be possible.

Also, when did you ever hear about anyone suffering from a protein deficiency ? I asked my cousin who's a doctor - says he's never treated anyone for such a thing, ever.

I hear an awful lot about heart disease and cancer though :(

From what I can tell, what you and @ttaskmaster are posting is basically the same thing, but you're both looking at it from different sides. Lack of protein isn't the illness itself. It's the illness that arises from Lack of protein. And of course, as I've posted above, the amount you need to eat to retain the same parity (in protein alone) is stupidly high. So high in fact I'm sure most people will die from ruptured stomachs, etc long before any G6PD triggers can kill them. Not to mention the excess amounts of other stuff that will be an issue. So yeah, not knocking being a Vegan, but certainly not suitable for everyone as per your postulation in an ealier post (that as Atheletes can do it, everyone else can survive if not thrive off it).

Believe me when I tell you this: I've gone through ALL of what you've posted before years ago (near 20), and it hasn't changed one bit since then when I first found out about it. My mums current GP that sees her most often looks at us sheepishly as she went through the same stuff before when she took over being the primary one dealing with her a few years back. And all she's done is make further (current) notes that agree with older notes from prior Doctors (who had recommendations from Specialists from St Thomas and Guys) to not to continue repeating the same questions as it won't change the outcome. :p (They know better then, until a new one takes over and tries the same stuff and then gets the evil eye from us as a "We told you so". Then promptly puts in notes again repeating the same stuff to not ask us again about the same stuff... :D They're like kids that can't stop themselves from touching fire and burning themselves really because we know the next one will repeat it... :D)
 
Soldato
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All fun and games until one day you might have serious health issues and regret not even having tried adapting a different diet which has proven to reduce the risk of many heart related diseases, but some just want a juicy steak instead :D

Don't knock it until you try it!
 
Soldato
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3,698
I found it interesting and if Arnie says it's healthy I'm in.:D As a family we're starting by eating one vegetarian main per week and see how we get on. I'm not willing to give up meat entirely but I think we could stretch to two mains a week in time.
 

mrk

mrk

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I've been eating meat all my life and never really considered working out or fitness in general and getting stronger until the last 18 months or so (( am in my mid 30s). My genetics has afforded me excellent metabolism however and once I started focusing on physical fitness, I didn't change my diet at all and have seen a tenfold increase in physical strength and mindset/positive energy in less than a year of focusing on these things 4-5 days a week for maybe 20-30 minutes or less.

A balanced diet where nutrition is of good quality is paramount. Home cooked meals are far better than fast food or pre-packed and then heated meals.

My 2 years of constant research into health and fitness has taught me a few things. The top 3 things are:

1: Nutrition. No matter how hard you work out for health/fitness, if your nutrition isn't balanced then nothing else you do will matter. If step 1 is not sound then you will fail at everything else. Doesn't matter if it's plant based or not, as long as it's good quality nutrition. You don't need supplements either. Don't bother even wasting your money.

2: Consistency in your fitness regimen. Without being consistent you will never tell your muscle fibres to grow and become stronger, you won't burn fat at a consistent level either if you're working to lower body fat to the /holy grail/ single digit region.

3: Rest. Sleep hours vary between people, but if you don't get enough sleep to allow you body to do what it needs to in a resting state to recover and refresh, all efforts in steps 1 and 2 are wasted. If you are yawning and feeling tired during the day at work, you are not getting enough sleep. Get another 30/60 minutes sleep and monitor and adjust your schedule accordingly.

This is all you need. The issue is number 2 is too difficult for the vast majority of people. Busy lives and commitments outside of an already busy work day mean people just don't have time to be consistent with their health. Many people I know can't even find 20 minutes spare in a day do just bust out some mountain climbers with a chair or pushups/pullups on a bar.

Shame!
 
Soldato
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Busy lives and commitments outside of an already busy work day mean people just don't have time to be consistent with their health. Many people I know can't even find 20 minutes spare in a day do just bust out some mountain climbers with a chair or pushups/pullups on a bar.

I think this is more of an excuse than anything, there's always time to be found even if it means waking up 30 minutes earlier and doing a 15-20 minute HIIT session.

Agree on nutrition though, a lot of people also fall into the trap of just counting calories but eating the right foods that make up those calories is important.
 
Soldato
OP
Joined
7 Aug 2004
Posts
10,987
Let me go through them. Assuming Male 50KG (lol, I pick up that weight with one arm) weight sedentary lifestyle, so around 56g of protein a day recommended:

Watercress: You'd need to eat a (non actual) ton of this to make up the protein required; Near 2.5kg of this. But that is 280 calories total for all of that, which is not fine, as you've just dumped a large mass into your stomach and have yet to obtain the necessary calorie amount. Even split by 3 for three meals a day, you're looking at 800g of watercress (that's 8 to 10 bags of the stuff from places like Waitrose and Sainsburys) PER sitting. But then you start to also: Calcium and Magnesium excess by many times the daily recommended amount. Calcium is directly bad as there are several illness' related to its excess. Magnesium is largely bad for kidneys, and all this just to maintain a daily recommended level of protein. That's not a good trade off. And certainly not for more elderly G6PD people (to which we can assume at least 80 million people of that 400 million would fall under this).

Alfalfa: Wouldn't work. Legume family based. Auto out.

Spinach: Excess Iron. Leafy Green. Remember that of that 400 million people, at least 100 million are female, and assuming everyone lives to 100, at least 45 million at around the age or passed the age of having menopause. So this is not suitable for large consumption for at least that many people.

Cabbage: Could work. Least amout of known issues for G6PD sufferers. But again suffers from needing at least 5KG of the stuff to make up the daily Protein level. So split by 3, that leaves us with at least 1.3KG of cabbage. So that's two small cabbage heads per sitting. And... well. Again, if we just put two small cabbage heads together and put it near our stomach, we can see it ain't gonna fit easily.

Asparagus: One that could work from what I know, unless if you suffer from other complications with Asparagus, to which I know my mother does (Night Leg Cramps, 100%, every time, Asparagus is involved, she suffers from it). Techincally not G6PD issue, but again, as having G6PD doesn't preclude other issues, you really need to factor them in too if they're common enough. Most Chinese people are warned off Asparagus if you have leg issues. And of course, I dunno about you, but every time my friends have Asparagus, I make sure I'm far away from them and downwind. :p But I will agree this is possible, but I doubt many will want to eat to the levels required. High amounts of Iron however, is an issue for the older G6PD females too.

Broccoli: I have this already, but not to the amounts you'd need it per day for 50KG Male. You're talking near 2.2KG of the stuff. That's around 10 heads of broccoli, I don't know about you, but that's probably a bit too much space for a 50KG male person to intake to their stomach. Even if we split it down to 3 for 3 meals a day, we're looking at 3 heads of broccoli only. Put 3 heads of broccoli together and put it near your stomach, and tell me you can stomach that down, with other foods as well, since it won't give the necessary calories required alone; Again, for a 50KG Male.

Cauliflower: This suffers from the same issue as Cabbage. It'll work, but you need to consume an inordinate amount of it to make up the protein level. We're looking at 10 small heads (4" diameter) per day again, and split by three meals, and again you're looking at at least 3 of them per meal.

Brussels sprouts: Can work, other than it won't make it popular with other people :p. But, the primary issue remains where you need to eat near 2.2KG a day of it. That's 1 and a half bags of it each sitting (near 700g of it). Certainly just about possible to place in your stomach. Probably the only one possible to do for daily intake really that you've listed. But women of advanced age or have already hit Menopause can't take it (as their usual method of removing Iron in their blood is now stopped).

Rice: Suffers from the same issue as Watercress, you'd need to consume near 2.5kg of rice alone to make up that protein recommendation. No one eats that much rice. No one. And I'm Chinese, I have rice, and I can barely take in 300g each sitting (and that's during large family gatherings over special occasions, that is also filled with other foods), much less 7 times more that. Or, if I just have rice three or four times a day, that's still 3 amounts less than whats required to get the required protein, and even with a large stomach you can't possibly handle that much rice (not on a 50KG Male), not without overeating by a WIDE margin. Again, the trade off is, non-ideal. Plus, whilst its silly to point out as I've not seen many Chinese people die from Arsenic from consuming rice only, but Rice suffers from having high concentrations of the stuff, which at 300g (most people eat at per sitting), now you're talking near 7 times this if you go this route. Much more research is needed, but its fairly clear it's not a wise decision.

Compare this to 1 Chicken Breast fillet. Weighing in at 172 grams. Yeah, I don't know about you, but I'd rather not try and bust my stomach to keep parity with that 172g of Chicken Breast to be honest. Compare the size of that with 3 heads of brocolli, or 900g of rice, all just to keep parity on the protein side, and not even factoring in excess of other nutrients that have now become bad for you through overconsumption without even meeting the Daily Calorie intake required.

And of course, we haven't compared the price of the amount of vegetables you need to purchase, and the fuel prices to cook that many for ONE person. And of course, needing suppliments for anything else you may miss through the combination of the possible foods above. If I had the money those atheletes do as well, sure as I'm a bloke, I can try Vegan for a while. But for a female with G6PD? Auto-fail after certain milestones are hit. So Vegan for all will never be possible.



From what I can tell, what you and @ttaskmaster are posting is basically the same thing, but you're both looking at it from different sides. Lack of protein isn't the illness itself. It's the illness that arises from Lack of protein. And of course, as I've posted above, the amount you need to eat to retain the same parity (in protein alone) is stupidly high. So high in fact I'm sure most people will die from ruptured stomachs, etc long before any G6PD triggers can kill them. Not to mention the excess amounts of other stuff that will be an issue. So yeah, not knocking being a Vegan, but certainly not suitable for everyone as per your postulation in an ealier post (that as Atheletes can do it, everyone else can survive if not thrive off it).

Believe me when I tell you this: I've gone through ALL of what you've posted before years ago (near 20), and it hasn't changed one bit since then when I first found out about it. My mums current GP that sees her most often looks at us sheepishly as she went through the same stuff before when she took over being the primary one dealing with her a few years back. And all she's done is make further (current) notes that agree with older notes from prior Doctors (who had recommendations from Specialists from St Thomas and Guys) to not to continue repeating the same questions as it won't change the outcome. :p (They know better then, until a new one takes over and tries the same stuff and then gets the evil eye from us as a "We told you so". Then promptly puts in notes again repeating the same stuff to not ask us again about the same stuff... :D They're like kids that can't stop themselves from touching fire and burning themselves really because we know the next one will repeat it... :D)

Right, ill get back to this, but I think your numbers are way off, and your over simplifying it , just using an example that doesn't use beans or legumes for G6PD, chicken has 31 grams protein per 100 grams of chicken, yet Seitan has 25 per 100 grams - and no one eats a tiny 100 grams of 'main' per meal, 200-250 easily for a normal male, so thats 50 grams of protein per ONE meal, which is enough for one day for one meal, EASILY, and seitan is just wheat mostly.

So to say you'll need a bucket of plants per meal is just silly, and if you can't eat beans seitan is easily made, no legumes, and can easily be flavoured massively differently to taste however you want.

Recently in the past 2 weeks i've found out I am celiac (my gluton anti body came back reading 128, a normal person it should have a range of 2-7) - which means NO wheat, well, Gluten forever now, no wheat, no rye, no barley - however other grains such as Oats don't have gluten in.

Now, you'd think a vegan celiac would have a hard time eating wouldn't you? - no NOT at all, there is tons and tons and tons of stuff I can eat.

I think its simply down to educating yourself, sure you've got G6PD and can easily find excuses to keep eating meat because you likely emotionally want to - but you can also easilyyyyyy live a vegan life with that condition, just as i can live mine as a gluten freegan! :D

I think it's a case of education as well - you tell people what you can't have, and they freak out, my friends parents, stuck in their ways think its unfathomable what i avoid eating - its simply a case of they have a TINY amount of food knowledge - they probably only use and eat 5-10% of available ingredients (meat n veg), and think thats all there is - same with you.

And sure you can say 'lack of protein' leads to illness, yes of course, but I'm eating 2-3 times the protein I actually need daily, its almost impossible to avoid the stuff, you certainly don't need meat!
 

mrk

mrk

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Exactly. I do my squats in the shower for example. Nothing better than latehring yourself with shower gel whilst strafing the shower like Zoidberg woop woop woop :d

Also, pull-ups whilst waiting for the kettle to boil etc, core isometrics whilst sat at the work desk. You get the idea. Literally everywhere is a workout station if you make it that way.
 
Soldato
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12,300
It's excuses in the end, there's always a way to find time to get some exercise in.
Yeah, like getting up early when you're only sleeping 3-4 hours a night anyway, due to having a newborn child... or hopping out of your car during that traffic jam in the middle of the M4 to crack out some situps, while dragging on all those exhaust fumes...

Also, pull-ups whilst waiting for the kettle to boil etc, core isometrics whilst sat at the work desk. You get the idea. Literally everywhere is a workout station if you make it that way.
If you make it that way and don't mind everyone telling you what a nob you look doing that on the kitchen floor... Oh, and mind you don't trip someone up while you're planking behind your desk, there... My favourite one was when everyone was doing P90X and I heard a suggestion of doing pushups while waiting for the bus. You try that round here, the best you can hope for is a kicking off the local school kids...
 
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